2009 CCR's - Whose In?
Moderators: sderby, Tim Bosma, Tom Elsen
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
Greggarious (#232 - Louisville KY) will be in -paperwork going in the mail tomorrow.
Has anyone seen this on Sailing Anarchy - re: Macatawa Bay YC race commitee?
Angry Dutchman
Pieter Taselaar is one of the dominant Melges 32 owner/skippers in that tough fleet, having won two major European events this year enroute to his bid to become World Champion next month in Porto Cervo with “Bliksem”. Last weekend, Pieter chartered one of the factory Audi Melges 20s for their first-ever US National Championship in Holland, MI - and going into the final day, Taselaar was in the lead. But the final two-leg race was a yard sale, with boats sailing every which way in barely a breath of wind, and the regatta ended with Eric Wynsma's Superfly and Marc Hollerbach's Black Jack finishing 1-2 while Taselaar and a handful of others never getting close to the finish line. A request for redress to toss the race was disallowed, resulting in part of the fleet happy and part very much not. Thanks to composites expert Ed Wheatley and his awesome Fountain 38 (our dream OTW Anarchy comand ship), We got some good videos and photos that you can check out on the thread: There's some light air racing, great shots of catching salmon and drifting around, and interviews with a big pile of Audi Melges 20 sailors - many of them overjoyed about their fleet and first-ever Nationals. But not all. Taselaar sent us this:
“We are appealing the results. Bliksem requested redress to have race number 4 thrown out at the Nationals because of non compliance by the RC with the Audi Melges 20 class rules, which states that there has to be a consistent breeze of 4 knots or more in order to start a race. There were about 5 minutes during the sequence where the wind was 4 knots or above but in no way did we at ANY time during the morning have a breeze that lasted above 4 knots for more than 2-5 minutes. I requested redress and asked for the race to be thrown out given that the wind completely shut down and half the fleet was going backwards halfway up the first beat. I gathered about 7 witnesses (half the fleet) but the Jury (mostly locals from [host club] Macatawa Bay Yacht Club) decided it was not necessary to hear them. The PRO was asked by the jury if he thought this race was a true reflection of participants' racing ability and he said: absolutely yes! Now we are talking about a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP which is being decided in 0-2 knots of breeze with 50 degree random shifts, one upwind and one downwind leg and a knot of current against us. The separation between the leader and "losers" like us was about 100 boat lengths by the time the first boat rounded the mark and got carried back to the finish by the tide. I asked the PRO if he could look me straight in the eye and repeat his statement that this race was a true reflection of participants' racing ability and he said “yes.” The sad thing is that I feel compelled to appeal this blatant disregard for class rules to USSAILING and even sadder is that while all this was going on, Harry Melges was watching from a Whaler his "new exciting" old man's class being destroyed by a race committee consisting of grandmothers and grandfathers. I have nothing against Grandpas but prefer for them to play with my kids rather than sail against them or have them run races. I guess last weekend Melges managed to find a new niche with the MELGES GRANDPA 20. I am looking forward to the appeal which I purely pursue as a matter of principal. If I win, I will hand the title right back to the oldest skipper in the fleet.”
08/25/09
Has anyone seen this on Sailing Anarchy - re: Macatawa Bay YC race commitee?
Angry Dutchman
Pieter Taselaar is one of the dominant Melges 32 owner/skippers in that tough fleet, having won two major European events this year enroute to his bid to become World Champion next month in Porto Cervo with “Bliksem”. Last weekend, Pieter chartered one of the factory Audi Melges 20s for their first-ever US National Championship in Holland, MI - and going into the final day, Taselaar was in the lead. But the final two-leg race was a yard sale, with boats sailing every which way in barely a breath of wind, and the regatta ended with Eric Wynsma's Superfly and Marc Hollerbach's Black Jack finishing 1-2 while Taselaar and a handful of others never getting close to the finish line. A request for redress to toss the race was disallowed, resulting in part of the fleet happy and part very much not. Thanks to composites expert Ed Wheatley and his awesome Fountain 38 (our dream OTW Anarchy comand ship), We got some good videos and photos that you can check out on the thread: There's some light air racing, great shots of catching salmon and drifting around, and interviews with a big pile of Audi Melges 20 sailors - many of them overjoyed about their fleet and first-ever Nationals. But not all. Taselaar sent us this:
“We are appealing the results. Bliksem requested redress to have race number 4 thrown out at the Nationals because of non compliance by the RC with the Audi Melges 20 class rules, which states that there has to be a consistent breeze of 4 knots or more in order to start a race. There were about 5 minutes during the sequence where the wind was 4 knots or above but in no way did we at ANY time during the morning have a breeze that lasted above 4 knots for more than 2-5 minutes. I requested redress and asked for the race to be thrown out given that the wind completely shut down and half the fleet was going backwards halfway up the first beat. I gathered about 7 witnesses (half the fleet) but the Jury (mostly locals from [host club] Macatawa Bay Yacht Club) decided it was not necessary to hear them. The PRO was asked by the jury if he thought this race was a true reflection of participants' racing ability and he said: absolutely yes! Now we are talking about a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP which is being decided in 0-2 knots of breeze with 50 degree random shifts, one upwind and one downwind leg and a knot of current against us. The separation between the leader and "losers" like us was about 100 boat lengths by the time the first boat rounded the mark and got carried back to the finish by the tide. I asked the PRO if he could look me straight in the eye and repeat his statement that this race was a true reflection of participants' racing ability and he said “yes.” The sad thing is that I feel compelled to appeal this blatant disregard for class rules to USSAILING and even sadder is that while all this was going on, Harry Melges was watching from a Whaler his "new exciting" old man's class being destroyed by a race committee consisting of grandmothers and grandfathers. I have nothing against Grandpas but prefer for them to play with my kids rather than sail against them or have them run races. I guess last weekend Melges managed to find a new niche with the MELGES GRANDPA 20. I am looking forward to the appeal which I purely pursue as a matter of principal. If I win, I will hand the title right back to the oldest skipper in the fleet.”
08/25/09
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Spike Boston
- Posts: 115
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 2:03 pm
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
Yes we read this. Tac was also sailing at that regatta and the guy was out of line. The MBYC RC is excellent. I know the PRO very well. He will be sailing with me.
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Mark Gutteridge
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:46 am
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
I can back up Spike's statement.
The RC is first rate and the PRO is a first class individual!
The RC is first rate and the PRO is a first class individual!
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
The Magic boat will not be there but I hope to stop in if possible.
Jeff Pawlowski
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
IMHO, you guys are missing the point. The guy didn't dis the PRO or say that he wasn't up to snuff, only that the race shouldn't have been sailed, per the class rules. Even without that kind of rule, I don't even START a race unless there is wind over the WHOLE lake. The speed isn't the key, just the simple fact that if you can look out there and see slicks everywhere, it's NOT going to be a fair contest, and I keep the RC boat at the dock with the postpone flag up! The cream almost always rises to the top, but not when gambling: that's why it's called gambling! 
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
Dave,
The lake is 22,300 sq. miles. There is never wind over the WHOLE lake.
The lake is 22,300 sq. miles. There is never wind over the WHOLE lake.
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
I guess in that case I would have to say that there should be wind on all of the lake within eye sight! 
The point is that races shouldn't be run in conditions where there are glassy patches all over the place, minimum wind speed or not. It's simple common sense and fairness to all involved. I have driven from here to California 3 times, to Northern Michigan once, to Ocean City Maryland once, all over Florida more times than I can count and everywhere in between many times to go to National championship regattas, let alone the regular kind. Even at that I would MUCH rather sit on the beach or at the dock in crap shoot conditions than to be forced by the RC to go out and sail in them, just because they were worried about "getting the races in".
The point is that races shouldn't be run in conditions where there are glassy patches all over the place, minimum wind speed or not. It's simple common sense and fairness to all involved. I have driven from here to California 3 times, to Northern Michigan once, to Ocean City Maryland once, all over Florida more times than I can count and everywhere in between many times to go to National championship regattas, let alone the regular kind. Even at that I would MUCH rather sit on the beach or at the dock in crap shoot conditions than to be forced by the RC to go out and sail in them, just because they were worried about "getting the races in".
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Mark Gutteridge
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:46 am
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
Dave;
I am sorry I should not have replied in the regatta forum about the aformentioned regatta. Let's takke further comments to a new forum or better yet to Sailing Anarchary.
And by the way are we ever going to see you at a class snctioned event?
I am sorry I should not have replied in the regatta forum about the aformentioned regatta. Let's takke further comments to a new forum or better yet to Sailing Anarchary.
And by the way are we ever going to see you at a class snctioned event?
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
Someday for sure, and you're right about not hijacking this regatta thread............................... although the whole point IS about regattas and how the races are run!
I may come to the equalizer with Garry Roberts just to meet everyone and maybe grab a ride or even give a hand to the RC. I've been coaching him and his CC crew so hopefully it will show some when they go to Holland! "you can lead a horse to water but................................."
I may come to the equalizer with Garry Roberts just to meet everyone and maybe grab a ride or even give a hand to the RC. I've been coaching him and his CC crew so hopefully it will show some when they go to Holland!
"you can lead a horse to water but................................."-
Tac Boston
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 8:56 am
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
Look, this Blixem dude is a way out of line. At the time the race started there was wind. The race met every time limit that the class rules state a race must make. Did the race suck, yes it kind of did, but it met what the class says it has to meet.
Go look at the start of the second race on Sunday, the one that was called off about 4 minutes into it. The Blixem was deep in the fleet for that start as well. The dude was the class of the field on Saturday in big breeze and sucked in light, Great Lakes conditions. Suck it up and don't be such a whiner!
I lived in Holland for 8 years and sailed many many races there in my life. The RC always does a solid job, perfect? HELL no none of us are. What I can tell you is that if you show up at the CCR you will be treated very well and should have some great racing. Will it be tricky of course it will that is sailing. For people that don't like those conditions, I hear that Golf memberships are dropping price.
Tac Boston
Go look at the start of the second race on Sunday, the one that was called off about 4 minutes into it. The Blixem was deep in the fleet for that start as well. The dude was the class of the field on Saturday in big breeze and sucked in light, Great Lakes conditions. Suck it up and don't be such a whiner!
I lived in Holland for 8 years and sailed many many races there in my life. The RC always does a solid job, perfect? HELL no none of us are. What I can tell you is that if you show up at the CCR you will be treated very well and should have some great racing. Will it be tricky of course it will that is sailing. For people that don't like those conditions, I hear that Golf memberships are dropping price.
Tac Boston
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
I am not and have not taken any sides in this, just speaking my opinion and saying what I have done and would do in the future when running races. I wasn't there and I also cast no disrespect or disparaging remarks towards those in charge of running the races in question.
Personally, I hate time limits because all that has to be done to satisfy them is to shorten a race that [possibly] never should have been started. Of course the wind is sometimes fickle and goes from a good breeze to a dying zephyr, but that is the exception, not the norm. Those conditions almost always come to fore when high pressure is close at hand or a stationary front is close by. These conditions are also what generally leads to light and variable patches of wind all over the place interspersed with similarly sized and numbered slick patches of water. Those running the races should and would do well to keep these points in mind when deciding whether to go or not.
Personally, I hate time limits because all that has to be done to satisfy them is to shorten a race that [possibly] never should have been started. Of course the wind is sometimes fickle and goes from a good breeze to a dying zephyr, but that is the exception, not the norm. Those conditions almost always come to fore when high pressure is close at hand or a stationary front is close by. These conditions are also what generally leads to light and variable patches of wind all over the place interspersed with similarly sized and numbered slick patches of water. Those running the races should and would do well to keep these points in mind when deciding whether to go or not.
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
And the good news is that MBYC has a reciprocal rights arrangement with the Holland Golf Club!!Tac Boston wrote:.
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. For people that don't like those conditions, I hear that Golf memberships are dropping price.
Tac Boston
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
Due to unfortunate job-related events, Team Hot Tamale will not be attending. I will be on-site lending a hand to the CCR organizers and RC, and putting stuff up on the web.
Thanks,
Thanks,
Re: 2009 CCR's - Whose In?
Sorry to hear that Tim............................. you da man though for going to help out! If I'm not up to my ears in work I hope to be doing the same thing at the Equalizer in Nashville.