Spectra backstay (discussion)

mizar · Post by **mizar** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:26 am

Any body interested in allowing spectra backstays ?

3333 · Post by **3333** » Thu Mar 11, 2004 6:08 pm

Hows your forestay.

Dale Eager · Post by **Dale Eager** » Mon Mar 15, 2004 7:13 pm

mizar wrote:Any body interested in allowing spectra backstays ?

Since we already have approved a backstay 'kicker' it might make sense to consider a spectra backstay. From what I have read, it should be a lot easier to come up with a workable solution with a lighter backstay. Given that the costs don't seem to be a big issue, I would not object to this type of a change.

Tom Line · Post by **Tom Line** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:01 pm

I talked about this a couple weeks ago with some friend, but I figured there would be alot of resistance to the change. I would love to see a spectra backstay. That plus a kicker would mean that much less wear and tear on the sail.

Plus, the backstay is a pig to tie up and put away when you drop the mast.

Post by **Tom Elsen** » Tue Mar 16, 2004 1:30 pm

I'm interested in this as well.

My concern is twofold -
1) Photodegredation. Wire is almost impervious. Most lines have significant problems here. Failed backstays can really ruin a good sailing day.
2) Chafe on the backstay, not on the sail.

Would you propose that only the single line portion of the backstay be allowed as non-wire, or that the whole assembly (including the 'split' lower portion) also be changed?

Sam Buschell · Post by **Sam Buschell** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 8:35 am

I think that if a change is made to the rules, a parts list, drawing/sketch, photos, and approximate cost should be made for the modification.
Not all class members have the resources to "engineer" something like a spectra backstay or a backstay kicker.
Perhaps Layline or some other rigging shop could help work something up.
Having said that, I think it is a really cool idea.
Sam

mizar · Post by **mizar** » Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:05 am

We have three years plus on our spectra stay with no signs of wear yet. It cost $64.00 and is set up just like our wire stay. big advantage is light air sailing (stays well out of the way during tacks, jibes).

Tac Boston · Post by **Tac Boston** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:39 pm

Hey All

I think that this is a great idea. I have been sailing with Spectra backstays on a whole range of boats from the MUMM 30 to the Maxi's that I sailed on.

We have had zero issues with the spectra backstays on any of the boats. Yes you will need to replace every few years but it does not wear the sail and the wear on the backstay is minimal.

For the 7.9 I would suggest that by setting a bit of an overkill size, maybe the same as a MUMM. (I will look up in the rules what that size is), we should no issues at all.

As it sits right now the backstay flicker is usless! It will not cost a whole a lot of money and will not have a significant performance gain so those who do not do will not be all that disadvantaged.

The only way that I see the performance jump is in light air when coupled with a backstay flicker.

Just my $0.02

Tac

Post by **fleck** » Thu Mar 18, 2004 4:22 pm

First, I don't know if the 7.9 as a one-design needs to move away from steel. BUT, many (most?) of us, myself included, race their boat in PHRF events(90 % of my races are PHRF). So, this would allow 7.9ers to optimize the boats for PHRF rules without having to put the wire backstay on for one-design events. Now that doesn't sound so hard and it isn't. The problem is when you buy a mainsail with a large roach that will work with a spectra backstay and flicker, but will have a hard time clearing the heavier stainless steel. Spectra would let you have your cake and eat it too.

If we are considering moving to spectra, why not allow cascading backstays as well?

I believe the Mumm 30's use 1/4" for the backstays. You would need around 30 feet when you include 2 splices. Here are the costs from APS:
Amsteel (Spectra) $.88/ft with 6600 lbs tensile strenth,
D12 (dyneema75) .96/ft with 7143 lbs,
Ultrex(dyneema75) is $1.08/ft with 9600 lbs

I've used all of these and they perform well. They are also dirt simple to splice (splicing is stronger than knoting). You can often find them on clearance.

DaveFlechsig · Post by **DaveFlechsig** » Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:12 am

I would love to see this option. I have run both the class wire and the dyneema 75 and have found no difference in performance except for reduced wear on the sail. We had more than a dozen races on a new main with the dyneema with no sign of wear. Two races at the NOOD in St. Pete with the wire and the sail was scratched up significantly. I don't know how long the dyneema will last but other classes are running them for several years with no significant wear. In light air, with my Melges 24 flicker, and the adjustment off, the sail rarely contacts the backstay. I would certainly support Nick and some further investigation into this rule change.

Steve Bowen · Post by **Steve Bowen** » Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:19 pm

As I understand it there is not much point in using a flicker unless you can also switch to a cascade system. There is not enough "throw" in the pinch-style to make it work without compromising the ability to bend the mast.

I put on a 3/16" Vectran backstay 5 yrs ago. It broke in year 4, after continuous exposure in VA and showing considerable signs of wear. The mast did not come down (and should not, on a boat with swept back spreaders).

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 1:39 pm

I put a 3/16" Technora backstay on my S27.9 custom about 7 years ago. I replaced it after 5 years - just because. The rig hasn't fallen down yet (knock-on-wood). I can't imagine it would be a problem on a 7.9 - the 7.9 custom has a hell of a lot more lever-arm the the std boat.

Jeff Sampson
"Rugger"

S2 7.9 Meter Class Association

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