As part of my spring tune up, I was inspecting the old Harken traveler car and contemplating replacing the torlon bearings and / or the entire car. Problem is that it's an older Harken with a large plate attached to the top for an older style windward sheeting arrangement.
Any suggestions?
Runaway
#23
Traveler Car
Moderators: Tim Bosma, Tom Elsen
Ours blew up when the plastic side plate finally bit the dust from one too many trips to the end of the track. Replacing the balls and parts still leaves the same problem. I bought a new Harken recirculating ball car and track. The car is ALL metal and the balls are captive. Much less to worry about and not that much dough involved.
Traveler car replacement
Did you go with a new car and track keeping the original setup or use the additional "windward sheeting" hardware from Harken attached to the car?
My old car has windward sheeting - but it doesn't look much like the new Harken part - so I am debating whether replace or just rebuild it. The torlon balls don't look too worn though, and the main body of this car is metal, with plastic end caps. It looks like a real challenge to load the balls back into the race.
The whole assembly just seems to have too much play in it -
My old car has windward sheeting - but it doesn't look much like the new Harken part - so I am debating whether replace or just rebuild it. The torlon balls don't look too worn though, and the main body of this car is metal, with plastic end caps. It looks like a real challenge to load the balls back into the race.
The whole assembly just seems to have too much play in it -
Runaway
1982 #23
1982 #23
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Tom Elsen
- Site Admin
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 5:42 pm
- Location: Minneapolis, MN & Chicago, IL
Loading bearing races
Harken makes a little blue plastic bearing loader. It's very handy.
But if you're in a hurry I have two words for you:
Shave Cream.
Works like a charm, rinses clean when you're finished.
But if you're in a hurry I have two words for you:
Shave Cream.
Works like a charm, rinses clean when you're finished.
Best wishes,
Tom
Tom
My personal opinion of windward sheeting cars is........................................
not much! You can't operate the traveler unless you're actually sitting on the cockpit seat, in the middle of the boat. That's NOT where you should be sitting most of the time. The other thing that I really don't like about them is that after tacking, the cleat doesn't open and allow you to pull the car to weather for light air work UNTIL the car loads up on the new tack. I can do it manually much faster and already have the main full and the boat accelerating. The original setup works fine with minor modifications. You can remove the eyestrap and/or fairlead from the traveler control line cleat and mount a cleat on either side of the cockpit seat edge, next to the track. Tie the ends of the traveler control lines together [they should be already]. Now you can sit on the low side and pull the car to weather from there and cleat it off with the new cleats.
The plastic end cap that you speak of IS what fails and lets all of the balls fall out.
not much! You can't operate the traveler unless you're actually sitting on the cockpit seat, in the middle of the boat. That's NOT where you should be sitting most of the time. The other thing that I really don't like about them is that after tacking, the cleat doesn't open and allow you to pull the car to weather for light air work UNTIL the car loads up on the new tack. I can do it manually much faster and already have the main full and the boat accelerating. The original setup works fine with minor modifications. You can remove the eyestrap and/or fairlead from the traveler control line cleat and mount a cleat on either side of the cockpit seat edge, next to the track. Tie the ends of the traveler control lines together [they should be already]. Now you can sit on the low side and pull the car to weather from there and cleat it off with the new cleats.
The plastic end cap that you speak of IS what fails and lets all of the balls fall out.
HARKEN CARS ETC
I guess the only reason the plastic caps haven't failed is a result of the large windward sheeting assembly extending another 3/4 inch on each end. So I gather that "windward sheeting" was a nifty idea from Harken to sell more stuff to those who need every new gadget - if for no other reason to say "I've got one of those!".
I guess all I can say is: I've got one of those, too.
Looking at a harken car 2727 as a simple replacement to fit a high profile track. Comments?
I guess all I can say is: I've got one of those, too.
Looking at a harken car 2727 as a simple replacement to fit a high profile track. Comments?
Runaway
1982 #23
1982 #23
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grandillusion
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:42 am
- Location: South Havenish
be careful the new captive ball cars arn't compatable with the old track and vise versa (pain in the ass) but you can still order the older car from Harken or find one at a place with lots of old stock as I did for $80 oh and with a CB car you can't replace it without removing the track on boats like our 7.9s
S2 7.9 216, H 16 80127, Star 6188
I would have to say that the chances of ever having to replace the new car are slim to none. Our old one lasted 22 years even with plastic end caps and much abuse! Plus, you still have to remove the track to change out the old car. Heck, after half that long the track should be removed and recaulked to boot. One of the rotten areas in our deck was where the traveler track bolts on. It's plywood in there, not balsa, and there was nothing but compost and some black semi-rotten wood left.
The WS car works on boats like J24 because the aft cockpit deck is flat and the boat is pretty narrow back there when compared with a 7.9. Tthe track is just a little over 2' long and even when the driver is sitting outboard as far as possible, the car and control lines are still reasonably close. You STILL have to wait on it in the lighter stuff though. It an engineer's dream; taking a simple job and making it more difficult with higher engineering! With all due respect to you engineers out there.
The WS car works on boats like J24 because the aft cockpit deck is flat and the boat is pretty narrow back there when compared with a 7.9. Tthe track is just a little over 2' long and even when the driver is sitting outboard as far as possible, the car and control lines are still reasonably close. You STILL have to wait on it in the lighter stuff though. It an engineer's dream; taking a simple job and making it more difficult with higher engineering! With all due respect to you engineers out there.
old car removal
just another comment re: old car removal. It does come off without removing the track. BUT in order to accomplish this, you have to remove the two screws in each end of the plastic bearing housing. Then slide each half off the car body and voila! torlon bearings all over the cockpit!
Given the construction of the new cars from Harken, you are correct that the car must be placed on the track before installing the track in the cockpit. Whatever the solution, it appears that the old track has to come out anyway. The bearings in the old car appear to be in pretty good shape, so it's not clear why there is so much play in it. That shaving cream suggestion just may work afterall
Did you use new (Harken) track with bolts that slide into the base or screw in from the top? The size appears to be 7/8 W by 1" H by 4 ft. L
Given the construction of the new cars from Harken, you are correct that the car must be placed on the track before installing the track in the cockpit. Whatever the solution, it appears that the old track has to come out anyway. The bearings in the old car appear to be in pretty good shape, so it's not clear why there is so much play in it. That shaving cream suggestion just may work afterall
Did you use new (Harken) track with bolts that slide into the base or screw in from the top? The size appears to be 7/8 W by 1" H by 4 ft. L
Runaway
1982 #23
1982 #23
Although the technique that you describe is doable, I stand by what I said. NOT removing the track and checking for rot and then recaulking the track and/or installing large, heavy fender washers on the underside is what causes the track to become loose and also what breaks the caulking seal, which lets water in which starts/restarts the rotting process. The original nuts and washers on our boat were sucked up into the glass/wood on the underside. As with many boat refurbishing and/or repair jobs, there may be many way to do something but only ONE truly right way. That "right" way is the one that not only fixes what needs fixed but also stops that or OTHER problems from happening again. A little more time spent on the front end adds up to tens - hundreds of hours spent later!
Yes to the attachment question.
Yes to the attachment question.
new car, new track
Harken has a pretty cool website with a built in hardware design feature. Just input the boat model (yes, the 7.9 is in their database) and follow the input variables. It seems that the 7.9 is at the upper end of the range acceptable for the "small boat" hardware, but will work. Their design software bumps the recomendation to the mid-range selections, but if you cross reference the mainsail sq ft, it will point back to the small boat track and car selections.
That said, it looks like the large (4 inch) car in their small boat hardware should work just fine. What is coming off the boat resembles an old version of the shorter ( and half the load capacity) car measuring in at just under 3 inches. The 4 inch car in their mid-range selection beefs up the load characteristics from the small boat selections, and will also work just fine if you want to shell out the additional $$$.
On a final note, will go with the traditional pulley and cam cleat setup previously installed with a pulley on each side of the car. Windward sheeting looks sexy, but I prefer basics and a continuous loop on the traveler. JMO
That said, it looks like the large (4 inch) car in their small boat hardware should work just fine. What is coming off the boat resembles an old version of the shorter ( and half the load capacity) car measuring in at just under 3 inches. The 4 inch car in their mid-range selection beefs up the load characteristics from the small boat selections, and will also work just fine if you want to shell out the additional $$$.
On a final note, will go with the traditional pulley and cam cleat setup previously installed with a pulley on each side of the car. Windward sheeting looks sexy, but I prefer basics and a continuous loop on the traveler. JMO
Runaway
1982 #23
1982 #23