Standing rigging

Fred Chadsey · Post by **Fred Chadsey** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 12:26 pm

I've read w/ interest of sailors expressing problems getting their S2 7.9 to point. This comment is for PHRF competitors: your standing rigging for speed and tacking inside of 70 degress: Headstay lenght 31'10", this will require a "forked shackle" and most of turnbuckle extended. This should produce about 28"-30" of rake (must have). Outer shrouds @ 28 and inners @ 25. backstay should be changed out to a "cascade system". With successful application, you'll out point J24 buy 3 degrees + boat speed equal to or better than polars we beat J24s and correct over J27s. Here in GYA (Gulf Yachting Assoc.) the S2 7.9s are Class Champions. I repeat for pointing + speed you need the mast rake. The above assumes that bottom, keel, & rudder are properly set up.

dave · Post by **dave** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 1:03 pm

All true Fred and good points. I might add that pointing comes from the big sail in the back of the boat! When in doubt, stay AWAY from the cunningham and/or having the main halyard "to the black band". I build my sails full size so getting to the band WITH A SLACK LUFF is no problem. No names will be mentioned but many of the laminate sails that are popular in this class are short on the luff and get even shorter as they shrink with heat and age. The band is there as a MAXIMUM hoist point, nothing else. Too many sailors feel as if they must hoist it that high just because. The halyard should be hoisted NO HIGHER than it takes to set the draft in the right location for a given wind strength and mainsheet tension. I prefer 50% because that points better but some sailmakers cut their sails for and recommend less than that. Whatever floats your boat. The proof is in the pudding! Having the draft too far forward in the sail will KILL pointing!!!!! In most conditions I see sailors in all classes sheet the JIB a little tighter to point when they should be sheeting the MAIN a little tighter.

Fred Chadsey · Post by **Fred Chadsey** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 2:18 pm

Dave thanks for reply, I fully agree w/ your additions. A couple of go fast points we use on Kaotic: We barberhaul all points of sail except beats and downwind; we ONLY use the full board on beats & tight reaches, ex: for beam reaches we use 1/2 board, often we get leeway but the VMG is good (this is for 20kap or less). For down wind we use no board. Everybody would need to experment their own setups, but gosh we've been successful.

dave · Post by **dave** » Sun Aug 24, 2008 4:53 pm

I'll bet the crew loves you.................................................................. just like they do me! They CERTAINLY like winning though!!!!!!!!!!

Captain Frank · Post by **Captain Frank** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:40 pm

What is a forked shackle and where can I get one

Does the main or headsails need a special cut for additional rake

What rudder and keel setups are being talked about

Thanks guys

Frank

Mark Gutteridge · Post by **Mark Gutteridge** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:29 am

helllooo;
Come to the CCR and you will be advised by the best of the S2 fleet.
I have found that this crowd wants everybody to sail FAST!
No super secret spy stuff here!
Super sailors; Spike ,Brad , Tom Paul,,Jeff, John,Dave, Jean' Bob ' Jeff,and all of the usual suspects need to impart their wisdom on us mortals.
When a class as tight as ours meets in competetion all of the class benefits!
Sometimes we discover a different setup, a new rule we did not have the correct understanding ,or just that sailing a lot of laps does make us better on our S2 7.9's
Everybody who has a litle bit of competetive spirit SHOULD attend A CCR.
It is an event that the host club puts their body and soul into.
I am so looking forward to going to PERCY PRIEST YACHT CLUB that I will be there for the Equalizer Regatta also.

Chimo;
Guts # 448 Hunting Party

dave · Post by **dave** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 10:50 am

Frank, by "forked shackle" I think they mean a toggle. just go to any online sailing gear supplier and type that in, with the correct sized pins of course. Mine are 3/8".

I can only speak for me but I cut all of my mainsails with a short leech so that the boom is level no matter how much mast rake is carried. This goes against the old "end plate effect" theory of the drooping boom but in the real world having the bigger roach that happens when you shorten the leech and are able to bump the girth measurement points out is WAY more important than the former, which was a questionable subject to begin with. I'll tell you this: having the boom OUT of the cockpit is SWEET!

On the rudder, set the trailing edge exactly parallel with the back of the keel and put a lock down bolt through it, then shim the gudgeons. If you just resort to wedges and such under the stock "hold down pin" you are not only semi guessing but it's not repeatable and it won't stay put. I'm sure that some others can get more involved with this but it's not necessary.

Post by **Tim Bosma** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 1:57 pm

Frank,
in lieu of a "forked shackle" or having to use a series of 3 toggles, we have put in place an extension plate. (just a minute while I look it up at Riggingonly.com) it is called a Schaefer Link Tang, and supplies up to 5" of adjustment.

grandillusion · Post by **grandillusion** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 10:14 pm

if you need more than 1 toggle you should really consider a new forestay, wile on this topic how about making dyform wire class legal, higher load rating means higher safety factor, not nessesarly gaining a competive edge

Tim S. · Post by **Tim S.** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:54 am

I don't think the increased breaking strength of dyform is really necessary. I don't recall hearing about boats losing rigs because the standard 1x19 just wasn't strong enough (assuming you've inspected it, and it's in good condition). I think the issue with dyform being prohibited, is significantly lower stretch under load, which would be a competitive advantage. I think the material cost is about double, and I don't think many would want to spend the $$ to keep up, when the old standard has worked well enough for 27 years. Just MHO.

507 · Post by **507** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 3:41 pm

We have always been under the impression that any deviation from our class measurement rules (for example, headstay length of 31'8" and weight of 4600 lbs) that would make the boat faster would require a new PHRF handicap which is likely to be lower than our one design rating of 165 on Lake Michigan. Is this not so?

Don B.

orion27 · Post by **orion27** » Sun Aug 31, 2008 9:48 pm

PHRF Rates the S2 7.9 with a displacement of 4050 lbs

I J P E DSPL WL KLDR CBDR PROP
30.50 9.50 29.40 12.30 4050 21.67 1.10 5.00 OB

Statistical analysis of actual and theoretical performance based on measurements above is another criteria. Empirical information of actual performance on the water and against a computer generated phantom boat
is a third. Class has nothing to do with it. I'm assuming "weight" displacement which is the "norm" as opposed to "displacement volume". Maybe someone else can clarify this point.

dave · Post by **dave** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:14 am

I don't know about the other measurements just from memory but the P is 29.6, not 29.4

.

orion27 · Post by **orion27** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:28 pm

Measurements were taken directly from PHRF documents, as were other rating criteria. Remember PHRF local ratings are arbitrary and can vary from
district to district. Posted ratings are average of high and low for different districts.

orion27 · Post by **orion27** » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:31 pm

just checked manufacturers specs P=29.42.

S2 7.9 Meter Class Association