Last weekend we raced in 17mph steady breeze and gusts of 25mph, (perhaps a touch more). Rig was set at 30/uppers 26/lowers for the wind range. We had about 900lbs on the rail in crew.
Full main and small jib. Jib car positions were just aft of turnbuckles.
The boat did pretty well in the under 20 stuff, but the puffs just put us on our ear and we experienced round ups. The rudder got super loaded.
In the puffs I'd crank backstay, feather and max drop on the traveler. If my jib trimmer was on it he'd dump about 4" of jib sheet and we'd survive ok.
However, if we were off just one second on any of those adjustments it was round up city. We don't have a great vang on the boat so I don't vang sheet because it's too difficult to get the leech tension back on the main after a dump in those conditions.
Beyond getting a better vang for vang sheeting are there any other suggestions out there?
Upwind trim in 20mph breeze?
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rogerdgamache
- Posts: 38
- Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:29 am
Re: Upwind trim in 20mph breeze?
1. Headstay at max class dimension. Uppers + 12 turns from base (about 29 on "new" Loos guage). Lowers + 9 from base (don't know the actual Loos reading).
2. Backstay: 16 /1 "cascade" tackle... led P&S. Use Aggressively. (note... this is the new spectra backstay... not the old "pinch" system)
3. Vang: 24 / 1 "cascade" tackle. Don't be afraid of twist. control it with vang... ease the sheet as the puff hits then sheet in (see below)
3a. Full outhaul on...
3b. Cunningham on to bring draft ahead.
4. Is your small jib in decent shape? Cross section should be a bit " knuckle forward", flat aft (particularly at the top...no "arc of circle"). If you can't get that, try more halyard tension. Vertically should have a bit a twist... were your leads far enough aft. BTW sheet inside the shrouds.
5. How much weight are you sailing with? At 20 apparent we have 780 lbs on the rail (excluding helmsman).
Technique:
1. Somebody is calling puffs. "Puff in 3 , 2, 1, puff on". If they are really good, they can actually call lifts and knocks.
2. We don't play with headsail sheet tension much... try and find a tension and lead position (amount of twist) that is appropriate for "median" condition.
3. I think for all but people who have a strong "helm and trim" background (and a strong arm) having a partner to the helmsperson trim main is important, although it's critical you work as a team.
4. Anticipation is critical... if you are moving the rudder more than 10 degrees, you will "lose it".
5 Practice
Hope this helps.
2. Backstay: 16 /1 "cascade" tackle... led P&S. Use Aggressively. (note... this is the new spectra backstay... not the old "pinch" system)
3. Vang: 24 / 1 "cascade" tackle. Don't be afraid of twist. control it with vang... ease the sheet as the puff hits then sheet in (see below)
3a. Full outhaul on...
3b. Cunningham on to bring draft ahead.
4. Is your small jib in decent shape? Cross section should be a bit " knuckle forward", flat aft (particularly at the top...no "arc of circle"). If you can't get that, try more halyard tension. Vertically should have a bit a twist... were your leads far enough aft. BTW sheet inside the shrouds.
5. How much weight are you sailing with? At 20 apparent we have 780 lbs on the rail (excluding helmsman).
Technique:
1. Somebody is calling puffs. "Puff in 3 , 2, 1, puff on". If they are really good, they can actually call lifts and knocks.
2. We don't play with headsail sheet tension much... try and find a tension and lead position (amount of twist) that is appropriate for "median" condition.
3. I think for all but people who have a strong "helm and trim" background (and a strong arm) having a partner to the helmsperson trim main is important, although it's critical you work as a team.
4. Anticipation is critical... if you are moving the rudder more than 10 degrees, you will "lose it".
5 Practice
Hope this helps.
Re: Upwind trim in 20mph breeze?
I have to chuckle just bit at your heavy air technique. Not because there's anything wrong with it, its actually about right,
but more because circumstances seldom allow me to be anywhere near competitive. My usual scenario is; a) double handed with my wife; she suffers from crippling arthritis so I don't allow her on the rail, or out of the cockpit except to go below. B) 135% roller furling jib. In heavy air it gets rolled in about 1/2, but sheeting remains outside the shrouds. C) Mainsail, is a blown out rag that needs serious replacement, its an old UK tape drive with most of the tapes now flapping in the wind. Not a formula for success, but we do have a good time and judge our success by how many minutes (or hours) that Rebel, H-party, and others beat us in.
but more because circumstances seldom allow me to be anywhere near competitive. My usual scenario is; a) double handed with my wife; she suffers from crippling arthritis so I don't allow her on the rail, or out of the cockpit except to go below. B) 135% roller furling jib. In heavy air it gets rolled in about 1/2, but sheeting remains outside the shrouds. C) Mainsail, is a blown out rag that needs serious replacement, its an old UK tape drive with most of the tapes now flapping in the wind. Not a formula for success, but we do have a good time and judge our success by how many minutes (or hours) that Rebel, H-party, and others beat us in.
Re: Upwind trim in 20mph breeze?
This is great detail. Thank you. We are/were set up right, (shrouds, headstay, jib car position) but need a better vang, (like you pointed out) and more purchase on the back stay. Small jib is from 1995....Probably not helping much there.rogerdgamache wrote:1. Headstay at max class dimension. Uppers + 12 turns from base (about 29 on "new" Loos guage). Lowers + 9 from base (don't know the actual Loos reading).
2. Backstay: 16 /1 "cascade" tackle... led P&S. Use Aggressively. (note... this is the new spectra backstay... not the old "pinch" system)
3. Vang: 24 / 1 "cascade" tackle. Don't be afraid of twist. control it with vang... ease the sheet as the puff hits then sheet in (see below)
3a. Full outhaul on...
3b. Cunningham on to bring draft ahead.
4. Is your small jib in decent shape? Cross section should be a bit " knuckle forward", flat aft (particularly at the top...no "arc of circle"). If you can't get that, try more halyard tension. Vertically should have a bit a twist... were your leads far enough aft. BTW sheet inside the shrouds.
5. How much weight are you sailing with? At 20 apparent we have 780 lbs on the rail (excluding helmsman).
Technique:
1. Somebody is calling puffs. "Puff in 3 , 2, 1, puff on". If they are really good, they can actually call lifts and knocks.
2. We don't play with headsail sheet tension much... try and find a tension and lead position (amount of twist) that is appropriate for "median" condition.
3. I think for all but people who have a strong "helm and trim" background (and a strong arm) having a partner to the helmsperson trim main is important, although it's critical you work as a team.
4. Anticipation is critical... if you are moving the rudder more than 10 degrees, you will "lose it".
5 Practice
Hope this helps.
900 lbs including helm. I sit in front of the traveler so my weight helps a little in keeping her flat. Someone calling puffs. I think the anticipation or lack thereof was when we'd get in the most trouble. Puffs tended to bring a 5-10 degree lift so you needed get the bow up as much as possible to feather, but like you said if you over steer Mr. fat stubby rudder looses it!
Thanks again.