S2 7.9 boats racing in PHRF please respond...

[dave]

Not only does the 7.9's base rating include lifting the board, the class Genoa is also smaller than 155%. PHRF allows the use of Genoas up to 155% with no added penalty so if you weren't racing one design that would really throw a wrench in the gears of the handicap committee!

99.999% of the time the folks that bitch the loudest about another boats rating are the ones who never practice, have a pickup crew, a less than good bottom and never really became good sailors themselves. They usually also have the coolest, newest sails and all of the latest gadgets. All show and no go. They seem to think that because they just dropped $6,000 or more on new rags, they are intitled to win. After all, it COULDN'T be them! At least in the smaller sized keelboats, money still can't buy first place.

Dave

[Rudeman]

Our PHRF region, BC Sailing, currently allows the centerboard to be raised during racing. This has been twice protested and in both cases the 7.9 was deemed to race with the board raised. Our adjusted rating is 165 as both BC Sailing and PHRF NW added 10% to the rating database, meaning all of numbers moved up, in our case to 182, however deduct the 10% and we based on a fairly standard rating of 165.

Thus far it seems most PHRF regions reporting in here actually ALLOW the board to be raised under PHRF. All very good information.

[Tom Elsen]

RE the Rudeman post immediately above:
Please recall that any boat is sailed 'as designed', unless the local PHRF guys explicitly re-specify things in the LOCAL area. This may sound like a minor point, but PHRF doesn't 'allow' the board-up sailing. They are abiding by what is the inherent design. The 7.9 was designed and rated to sail with the board up, downwind in moderate breeze. That's why it has such a safe righting moment with the board up.

If the local PHRF board wants to re-specify the equipment (on this or any boat) they can do so. However, they should then apply a ratings credit, as suggested by their own Handicappers Guidelines and Technical Bulletins. No one would expect that their boat's rating would remain the same if they were suddenly re-specified to use a 120% genoa, when their boat had been rated with a legal 150% headsail. The same hold true for any other significant required change to the inherent design standards.

[Tom Cassidy 352]

We sail out of Sandusky Bay, OH and LEPHRF allows the board to be raised with a JAM rating of 176 and kite rating of 171.

[hwpratt]

However, the moment of inertia is reduced and the angular velocity in response to a puff will be impressively increased!

A 7.9 with the board up has a better righting moment than a J24....with the keel down

[dave]

Tom, I didn't say anything about "allow" in my post pertaining to the board, I said include. Big difference. The "allow" was about a hypothetical use of a 155% genoa for handicap sailiing. Even though PHRF "allows" up to that overlap without penalty that would not be sailing the boat "as designed", which is where the base rating comes from, or more accurately, the one design rating. Like I said, that was a hypothetical.

[Tom Elsen]

Hi Dave
My post was a response to Rudeman's post (immediately above it, and below yours).
I do agree with your point about those who complain most though.
Unfortunately we've also seen the same folks misapply the logic of their own handicap rule. Hence my posting.

[dave]

Sorry Tom, my mistake. I didn't have my reading glasses on and thought for some stupid reason that there was "and post immediately above".

Dave

[Fred Chadsey]

We race in GYA (Gulf region) our rating is 171, We raise the board but get lots of groans from competitors. Our prime sailmaker here sails S2 7.9 and kicks A !! He raises the board like Tom said. In light air it's the only way we can beat J24s. Often have board @ 1/4 down in less than 5kts.

[dave]

171, what a gift! Here in central Arkansas we are sailing the 7.9 @ 167 and the J 24's are 169 !

Dave

[Scott Ross]

We race Peregrine in PHRF New England with a rating of 168 (same as J-24s). We are allowed to raise the board in all races with the exception of the PHRF New England Championships where there is a specific prohibition against raising the board if it is represents more than 10% of the boats total ballast. We're buying a trailer this winter and we'll see you guys in Annapolis for the NOOD. If I can take the time off we'll bring the boat out to Milwaukee and rinse the salt off in Lake Michigan for CCR.

[Norwalk-ROTC]

It seems to me that this should really be standardized.
If I am racing in Lake Michigan, it should be the same rating as what I would get in the Chesepeak Bay or anywhere else.

Is there a move afoot to present this?

It does seem a worthwhile objective of the Association.

[hwpratt]

For various reasons, PHRF handicaps are sometimes tweaked up/down a few seconds/mile for all the boats in a given region.

So, the important thing is how your rating compares to the PHRF handicap of a similarly rated "base boat" (e.g., J24) that has well-known performance characteristics on the race course in competent hands.

[dave]

Until a few years ago there were two BIG egos/enemies racing keelboats in our club. Over the course of the last 20 years they tit for tatted each other and everyone else to the point that ALL of the ratings in the A Fleet were below to well below the national averages. There were actually more than a few really nasty A Fleet meetings and some physical contact! I just became A Fleet captain and the first thing that we did as a fleet was to abandone our long held local adjusting, just to get rid of the politics and personalities. Don't get me wrong, I am VERY competitive on the water but I have never been one to fight over handicaps. A well maintained, well sailed boat of any kind will do well in a PHRF series, handicaps aside. As I have said before, the folks who do the most bitching about their number are the ones who have never paid the piper as far as experience/practice and maintainence are concerned. Our club is a member of the GYA so we just adopted their Valid list and that's what we will be using. No arguing, politicing the local handicap committee, etc. If someone doesn't like their # they can file an appeal with the GYA. We went from giving the J-24's time [167 - 168] to racing scratch at 171. Every other boat in the fleet had a rise in number except the Melges 24. I am looking forward to racing without [as much] griping from folks about how they are getting screwed by their rating. Some will still use it as an exuse. That's handicap racing.

Dave

[Fred Chadsey]

We race on gulf coast (GYA), our rating is 171 for OB and 174 IB. We raise & lower board when it is advantagust.