cascade back stay system

Fred Chadsey · Post by **Fred Chadsey** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:58 pm

I purchased a cascaded back stay system (Spectra) from Layline and I 'm having tangled or twisting line problems, has anyone else had this problem, how did you solve it ?

Post by **Tim Bosma** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 1:04 pm

Fred,
What line do you have in the cascade section? Are the upper blocks on swivels?

Fred Chadsey · Post by **Fred Chadsey** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:59 pm

Tim, the 1st cascade block is not swiveled, 2nd is, but unwinding it does not solve problem it just comes back. Note that 1st cascade and lower cascade and lower are twisting. Do you think putting a swivel on top cascade will solve the problem. The 1st cascade is not covered but lower is. Releasing back stay gives almost no results in light air. When I talked w/ Layline they replyed I had the standard setup ! ???. I'll try up block on swivel and see what happens. I really appreciate your help !

BarryE · Post by **BarryE** » Tue Feb 13, 2007 9:10 pm

I've had the layline set up for two years now with no problems. I believe that all necessary blocks can freely swivel.
If you have the carbo blocks, they can be set to swivel,or not. Check,and see if they're set to swivel.

Post by **Tim Bosma** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:56 am

Fred,
The other thing is the line. Some types of line have a tendency to twist as they pass through blocks, others do not. It could be that the line in the tackle is inducing twist and the cascade is getting involved. The next question I have is about the way the cascades and the tackle are arranged on the stern. Perhaps a pic would be best, but I prefer to have the tackle on the opposite side as the lower cascade, and the lower cascade on the opposite side as the upper cascade. This does make a sort of web across the stern but it can be rigged high enough to not get in the way.
Since our helmsman still has some upper body strength, I have rigged Hot Tamale with a single cascade and a 4:1 tackle giving him 8:1 overall on the backstay.

tpf · Post by **tpf** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:13 pm

I am getting closer - Ordered Blocks and Vectran from West and decided given the risk if I had a problem that it was worth a few bucks to have West Splice the thimbles into the back stay.

Everything came and looked really nice except they forgot the air block on the backstay for attaching the kicker. They are going to rework the back stay and return it next week.

Hopefully in a week or two I can get it installed on the boat.

Kicker installation - I ordered a Melges 24 kicker and the plan is to drill and tap the mast head to attach the kicker with safety wired hex screws.

Any advice on screw size would be appreciated. I am not sure how much material is there to tap into.

BarryE · Post by **BarryE** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:30 pm

IIRC, I drilled and tapped mine for a standard 10-24 machine screw, for backup I put a nylock nut on as well. 3 years, no problems.

Post by **Tim Bosma** » Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:44 pm

BarryE wrote:IIRC, I drilled and tapped mine for a standard 10-24 machine screw, for backup I put a nylock nut on as well. 3 years, no problems.

tpf,
We also used 10-24 SS machine screw with red locktite, fender washer on top of batten. At the end of 1 season they are still as tight as when put in and the batten shows no sign of wear. We put a small SS eyebolt on the end of the batten and then the airblock on the eye. When down rigging we remove the entire backstay by removing the airblock from the eye, leaving the batten is place.

oops, I just reread the problem with your airblock not on backstay. The block we have has a clevis pin (Harken #376) so it can be opened and placed on the backstak with out having to undo and redo the eyesplices in the ends.

tpf · Post by **tpf** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 12:25 pm

Thanks Tom!
I emailed West and they are going to send a 376 block instead of reworking the back stay. Nice solution!

Tom Line · Post by **Tom Line** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 2:06 pm

I cheated when I connected the batten to the mast crane. I didn't have the stainless bolts so I just used 1/4 stainless rivets - they haven't loosened or moved.

tpf · Post by **tpf** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:35 am

I installed the Vectran Backstay over the weekend and it went really well.

The new backstay will definitely be easier to adjust and no more main hung up on the backstay going down wind!

Thanks for all the help and advice

Post by **Tim Bosma** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 11:05 pm

One thing I found when inspecting parts over the off-season (read winter), is that the main has chafed the v-12 backstay line a couple of feet down from the end. I am adding an 18" (or so) dacron cover, sew on to the section where the sail rubs the stay during tacks. I also noticed wear on the lower in the area my skipper grabs all the time. I'm telling him to cut it out!! Next year I will end for end the upper section of the stay, move the cover to the other end, and end for end the lower to give 'skippy' some new grip.

orion27 · Post by **orion27** » Tue May 15, 2007 10:14 pm

This bit of advice to prevent twisting line will only be helpful in the future. All line is reeled onto spools. When pruchasing line, one has to pull the line directly from the spool as it rotates. Pulling the line off the side of the spool, even a single coil, will irretrievably cause the line to develope a permanent twist. So remember, if you do not want twisted lines, don't pull the line off the side of the spool.

tpf · Post by **tpf** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 10:36 am

Used my new back stay system last night for the first time. Worked great, I highly recommend it. Going down wind I needed to Jybe and the main hung up and with a simple click of the line the main went free. No profanity required!

Thanks for the help sorting out the configuration.

dave · Post by **dave** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:38 pm

Something that works REALLY well is to replace the cheek blocks on either side of the cockpit [where the lines turns 90 degrees and goes up to the cleat] with Harken Ratchamatics. No matter how tight you get the backstay, when you uncleat it you don't get pulled through the cleat or worn out gloves and/or rope burns.

S2 7.9 Meter Class Association