You northern folks who don't want to sail on "shifty" waters are missing the boat, so to speak. With all due respect, the whole idea that a National Championship Regatta for ANY class of boats should always be sailed in "Great Lakes" or similar conditions and/or venues is not only ridiculous but biasing the event every year to those who do best or are "more comfortable" in those conditions. I personally like to race in ALL conditions except for light and variable crapshoots. If the wind is light and variable, there IS no wind direction by definition and a good RC will not have the fleet out there!
The 7.9 class is ALREADY fairly strong in the north/northeast. There are lots of 7.9's in the south/midsouth /southeast. Giving those folks a real chance to sail in a National Championship [let alone ANY 7.9 regatta] without having to tow their boat and crew for 1,000 miles or more would be a great way to increase the interest and participation in the class.
Again with all due respect, it has been my observation over many decades of racing all over the country that folks who come up with reasons to NOT sail in a certain location are usually lacking in the skills that it takes to do well in said location. If you REALLY want to broaden your horizons and increase your knowledge and skill level you should jump at the chance to sail in a big event in locations that are NOT what you are used to!
2008 CLASS CHAMPIONSHIP REGATTA
Moderators: sderby, Tim Bosma, Tom Elsen
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Tom Elsen
- Site Admin
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 5:42 pm
- Location: Minneapolis, MN & Chicago, IL
Guys -
Hold on a second.
First, I think everybody wants fair racing. So I think it's fair to ask questions regarding the local conditions. People are spending a bunch of money / time to compete, not to gamble more than is reasonable.
Second, anybody who knows me knows that I absolutely do not buy the argument that 'local conditions' are inherently unfair. That is ridiculous IMHO. Look at some of the best sailing venues in the US - San Francisco, Annapolis, San Diego, Newport / Jamestown, Miami. It's pretty easy to argue that local conditions determine your strategy in each of those places.
Third, I'm not saying that Nashville is a crap-shoot location. Paul, James and the rest of those guys wouldn't be such good sailors if that was the case. Is there a greater chance for relatively bigger shifts than on the Great Lakes? Probably. Is that a deal-killer? Certainly not.
Fourth, I don't think that anybody, least of all me is prejudiced against southern locations. No way. However there is an 'average travel' issue at work here. Nashville, Minneapolis and Sarnia are all at the extremes of the where the majority of our membership is located. So, that has to be factored in to the decision. Milwaukee, Racine, Chicago and Holland MI are all more convenient (or perhaps 'less inconvenient') for more of our members. My strategy has been to try to hold the CCR at a central location in two of three years.
Fifth, RE the issue of supporting the local fleet. That is something that's important. And the Nashville guys have clearly showed their support for the class overall by traveling to events.
We'll have this settled very shortly.
And I know you all want everything to be the best it can be.
Hold on a second.
First, I think everybody wants fair racing. So I think it's fair to ask questions regarding the local conditions. People are spending a bunch of money / time to compete, not to gamble more than is reasonable.
Second, anybody who knows me knows that I absolutely do not buy the argument that 'local conditions' are inherently unfair. That is ridiculous IMHO. Look at some of the best sailing venues in the US - San Francisco, Annapolis, San Diego, Newport / Jamestown, Miami. It's pretty easy to argue that local conditions determine your strategy in each of those places.
Third, I'm not saying that Nashville is a crap-shoot location. Paul, James and the rest of those guys wouldn't be such good sailors if that was the case. Is there a greater chance for relatively bigger shifts than on the Great Lakes? Probably. Is that a deal-killer? Certainly not.
Fourth, I don't think that anybody, least of all me is prejudiced against southern locations. No way. However there is an 'average travel' issue at work here. Nashville, Minneapolis and Sarnia are all at the extremes of the where the majority of our membership is located. So, that has to be factored in to the decision. Milwaukee, Racine, Chicago and Holland MI are all more convenient (or perhaps 'less inconvenient') for more of our members. My strategy has been to try to hold the CCR at a central location in two of three years.
Fifth, RE the issue of supporting the local fleet. That is something that's important. And the Nashville guys have clearly showed their support for the class overall by traveling to events.
We'll have this settled very shortly.
And I know you all want everything to be the best it can be.
Best wishes,
Tom
Tom
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Mark Gutteridge
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:46 am
Dave;
If you need a regatta in the south to get your boat in shape i would gladly sail against you on any body of water you deemed appropiate.
So, again we are talking, which is exactly what i hoped would happen.
It has been suggested that there is a fixation on Nashville,I disagree.The point I was trying to make was that we need not always expect to get the best possible conditions or travel considerations for the event.
Last years CCR was in Milwaukee and I am not sure we got as much participation from the midwest that we hoped for. Please tell me if i am wrong.
I love this S2 class and the people who have decided to sail these boats.
I want what is right for the majority.I do think that once in a while you have to travel. If it wasn't for S2 one design sailing I wouldn't have gone to Annapolis, Nashville( that's not right because I played in a rugby tourney there) Racine and of course Holland.
Lets go south, east or west if WE decide that is what is good for ALL OF US in the LONG term.
As i pointed out earlier you are not going to get even conditions and if you did that would not be as challenging.You might have to bitch about warm beer or something else just as silly.
Love you guys.
Guts.
If you need a regatta in the south to get your boat in shape i would gladly sail against you on any body of water you deemed appropiate.
So, again we are talking, which is exactly what i hoped would happen.
It has been suggested that there is a fixation on Nashville,I disagree.The point I was trying to make was that we need not always expect to get the best possible conditions or travel considerations for the event.
Last years CCR was in Milwaukee and I am not sure we got as much participation from the midwest that we hoped for. Please tell me if i am wrong.
I love this S2 class and the people who have decided to sail these boats.
I want what is right for the majority.I do think that once in a while you have to travel. If it wasn't for S2 one design sailing I wouldn't have gone to Annapolis, Nashville( that's not right because I played in a rugby tourney there) Racine and of course Holland.
Lets go south, east or west if WE decide that is what is good for ALL OF US in the LONG term.
As i pointed out earlier you are not going to get even conditions and if you did that would not be as challenging.You might have to bitch about warm beer or something else just as silly.
Love you guys.
Guts.
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Spike Boston
- Posts: 115
- Joined: Thu Jan 16, 2003 2:03 pm
2008 CCR
Joe, that sounds fine with me
Spike
Spike
Mark, it's just a very good incentive to stop putting off doing what I do for a living [sailmaking/sailboat rigging and maintainence], only on my free time! Kind of like the plumber with a leaky faucet, after doing repair on everyone else's boat's, it's hard to find the umph to do ALL that needs fixing on my own. Combined that with being pretty much burned out with crewed boats and it's been very hard for me to find said umph! It is a seriously huge project and I need a serious shot of energy. A National Championships with a competitive fleet only 7 hours away sounds REALLY nice! Sailing with a team is enough of a strain on my psyhce. Being only 7 hours or so from Little Rock would drop the stress factor greatly. I know that it's the same for everyone but not everyone takes their sailboat racing as seriously as I do!
I would be willing to bet that there would be more than a few new faces at the event. As I said, there are lots of 7.9's in the south. If promoted well it could really be a shot in the arm for the class as a whole.
I would be willing to bet that there would be more than a few new faces at the event. As I said, there are lots of 7.9's in the south. If promoted well it could really be a shot in the arm for the class as a whole.
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Mark Gutteridge
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:46 am
Dave ;
I understand your analogy about your profession and how it relates to working on your own boat.
If you are having some problems with crewed sailing try some doublehanded or solo sailing .I do a lot of solo sailing and some doublehanded sailing.I find it quite rewarding and theraputic.
I have heard that there a lot of boats in the south.Can you give me some reasons why there doesn;t seem to be many boats that are sailing in the St. Pete's NOOD regatta.Or are you talking about the northern south.
Fair winds;
Mark
I understand your analogy about your profession and how it relates to working on your own boat.
If you are having some problems with crewed sailing try some doublehanded or solo sailing .I do a lot of solo sailing and some doublehanded sailing.I find it quite rewarding and theraputic.
I have heard that there a lot of boats in the south.Can you give me some reasons why there doesn;t seem to be many boats that are sailing in the St. Pete's NOOD regatta.Or are you talking about the northern south.
Fair winds;
Mark
I'm talking south of the Mason Dixon line. That's a BIG area. As to St Pete I can only say that if you are talking light and or shifty, that's your place. Sure, there is a seabreeze SOMETIMES if it's not too cloudy, if it happens to makes it inland before the racing is over or almost over and if it's not fighting the gradient wind which REALLY makes for a crapshoot. Personally, I can't see spending the $$$$ along with the other things involved in campaigning a 5 person keelboat that takes a large gas guzzling vehicle to tow just to sail in that venue. Combined with a huge fleet of other types of boats on the course, that makes for way less than optimal sailing. I'm not being negative, just truthful.
The fact that a National Championship is by default a one design event holds much more interest to me and I would imagine there are more than a few that feel like wise.
The fact that a National Championship is by default a one design event holds much more interest to me and I would imagine there are more than a few that feel like wise.
Hi- this is Jeff-
I'm happy to see further discussion on this topic but why aren’t more fleet members responding with input? It’s too quiet here. Let’s get some excitement rolling here! Let’s get a location and date scheduled!
I offered to investigate race dates at RYC for the Nationals but only had 1 response. If we can help let us know usa1208@rochester.rr.com
I'm happy to see further discussion on this topic but why aren’t more fleet members responding with input? It’s too quiet here. Let’s get some excitement rolling here! Let’s get a location and date scheduled!
I offered to investigate race dates at RYC for the Nationals but only had 1 response. If we can help let us know usa1208@rochester.rr.com
Jeff Pawlowski
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John Spierling
- Posts: 191
- Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2004 3:12 pm
- Location: Shelby Twp, Mi.
Jeff, Rochester the second week in September sounds good to me.
I guess I hit a nerve with my comments on Nashville, I just want a venue that would offer fair racing for a Class Championship Regatta. If we could get some interest in Detroit NOOD. Lake St. Clair is shifty!!! Now, will this get anybody's blood boiling and get them to attend Detroit?????
Who's in for St. Pete??? Less than 3 months.
I guess I hit a nerve with my comments on Nashville, I just want a venue that would offer fair racing for a Class Championship Regatta. If we could get some interest in Detroit NOOD. Lake St. Clair is shifty!!! Now, will this get anybody's blood boiling and get them to attend Detroit?????
Who's in for St. Pete??? Less than 3 months.
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grandillusion
- Posts: 172
- Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:42 am
- Location: South Havenish
This is Jeff-
Looks like the weekends of September 5-7 and September 19-21 may be free at this point at RYC-Rochester. I would need to propose this regatta to the Board in December, seek their approval and finalize the proposed dates. This is a very simple process.
Tom, please contact me so we can discuss this matter and get the ball rolling here in Rochester if needed. usa1208@rochester.rr.com
Looks like the weekends of September 5-7 and September 19-21 may be free at this point at RYC-Rochester. I would need to propose this regatta to the Board in December, seek their approval and finalize the proposed dates. This is a very simple process.
Tom, please contact me so we can discuss this matter and get the ball rolling here in Rochester if needed. usa1208@rochester.rr.com
Jeff Pawlowski
Since I won't be able to attend the CCR, I'll chime in with a few suggestions,
1) local conditions are what they are, and shouldn't be a serious factor in choosing a venue. Someone used to the shifty conditions of a small inland lake may be a bit non-plussed by the occasional heavy seas of Lake H, or Lake M. (loosing sight of the fleet when you drop into a trough is always disconcerting.)
2) Yes, our fleet is somewhat fragmented with concentrations of boats in distant and (from each other) remote locations, can we use that to an advantage?
3) We might try to find a "central" location, but there may not be a good one, or
4) why not mandate a North, South, East West rotation, North one year, South the next, or something similar.
5) Why not incorporate our CCR within a larger existing event, NOODS, Charleston, Tampa, Put-in-Bay?
6) Why always in August/September? Why not earlier in the year, or even in the spring, if that can attract more people?
Just some thoughts.
Wht do you think?
1) local conditions are what they are, and shouldn't be a serious factor in choosing a venue. Someone used to the shifty conditions of a small inland lake may be a bit non-plussed by the occasional heavy seas of Lake H, or Lake M. (loosing sight of the fleet when you drop into a trough is always disconcerting.)
2) Yes, our fleet is somewhat fragmented with concentrations of boats in distant and (from each other) remote locations, can we use that to an advantage?
3) We might try to find a "central" location, but there may not be a good one, or
4) why not mandate a North, South, East West rotation, North one year, South the next, or something similar.
5) Why not incorporate our CCR within a larger existing event, NOODS, Charleston, Tampa, Put-in-Bay?
6) Why always in August/September? Why not earlier in the year, or even in the spring, if that can attract more people?
Just some thoughts.
Wht do you think?