So, after a half a season of waiting around on the dock for the new mast and new rigging to arrive, we are finally on the water. But horrors, even the Santana 20's are crossing the line before us! javascript:emoticon(':shock:')And, she won't point.
We had to shorten the forestay from class max in order to get a minimum amount of tension on the inners. I guess they were cut too long. The turn buckles are tightened down as much as possible and still not tight enough.
So my options are:
1. To be the pig of the fleet AND have the lowest PHRF rating on the lake.
2. Add a shim under the mast foot in order to allow some extra room to tighten the inners. ( The outers have plenty of room for adjustment in both directions.)
3. Suck it up and send the inners back to the shop now, have them redone, and miss even more of the season.
I am really leaning toward #2. (followed by 3 in September) Any opinions on the safety of shim plan?
Any opinions on sailing the boat in 15 plus knots with the inners tensioned only to 13?
Advice on inner shroud tension
Moderators: sderby, Tim Bosma, Tom Elsen
Karen, what's the condition of the bottom of the boat? The best tuned rig with the newest rags and the best sailors won't be able to make any boat go worth a hoot without a really smooth bottom, and I'm talking dolphin skin smooth! Having said that, have you checked to make sure that your deck area under the mast isn't rotten and caving in?
I would guess that the lowers were just made too long but the other two things are way important!
I would guess that the lowers were just made too long but the other two things are way important!
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Tom Elsen
- Site Admin
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- Location: Minneapolis, MN & Chicago, IL
Hi Karen. Here's my $.02.
If the shrouds are wrong, they're wrong. Nothing will make them right. Putting a shim under the mast step is a bit like your tailor asking you to stretch your arms to accommodate an improperly cut suit.
RE a good 'all purpose base' setting, I'd say it would be about 26 over 19. More for wind over 12, less for wind under 8.
The other thing you should know (beyond all of the obvious) is that you MUST go fast to point high. That is - unless you're fully up to speed, don't try to point up those last 3 degrees. You'll just never get that last third of a knot.
Good luck
If the shrouds are wrong, they're wrong. Nothing will make them right. Putting a shim under the mast step is a bit like your tailor asking you to stretch your arms to accommodate an improperly cut suit.
RE a good 'all purpose base' setting, I'd say it would be about 26 over 19. More for wind over 12, less for wind under 8.
The other thing you should know (beyond all of the obvious) is that you MUST go fast to point high. That is - unless you're fully up to speed, don't try to point up those last 3 degrees. You'll just never get that last third of a knot.
Good luck
Best wishes,
Tom
Tom
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Mark Gutteridge
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 9:46 am
Karen;
I agree with Tom;did I really write that.
Do not go adjusting mast heights for a problem that is solved by having the correct lenght lowers.You will be changing far more things by doing that.You change your uppers,forestay and lots of other stuff.All of your rigging numbers will be different and you will have to do a lot of experimenting.Then you will have to do it all over again when you get the right lowers.
Dave;s advice is good but that's after you get the right lowers and mast tensions.
Also tom is correct about trying to point .Spike calls it the S2 Waddle.Get the boat moving and waddle up.Always keep boat speed and the beast will waddle to windward like crazy.
Chimo;
Guts.
Yeah, for cryin' out loud Mark. If you're going to do yourself the disservice of agreeing with me, at least don't put it in writing. 
I agree with Tom;did I really write that.
Do not go adjusting mast heights for a problem that is solved by having the correct lenght lowers.You will be changing far more things by doing that.You change your uppers,forestay and lots of other stuff.All of your rigging numbers will be different and you will have to do a lot of experimenting.Then you will have to do it all over again when you get the right lowers.
Dave;s advice is good but that's after you get the right lowers and mast tensions.
Also tom is correct about trying to point .Spike calls it the S2 Waddle.Get the boat moving and waddle up.Always keep boat speed and the beast will waddle to windward like crazy.
Chimo;
Guts.
Yeah, for cryin' out loud Mark. If you're going to do yourself the disservice of agreeing with me, at least don't put it in writing. In regards to pointing
I am following the discussion on rig tension with interest, and am wondering about advice on pointing.
This weekend I raced in two very different wind conditions - 8 knots to zip, mostly on the light side and the 10-15 knots mainly on the 15+ side. We raced the first day (light air) with the 150 watched the J24's we were with walk away to windward. Then the next day we tried both the 105 & 135 with similar concerns.
I am racing PHRF and am watching J24's point 10+degrees higher than I am. I understand the speed for lift equation (at least conceptually, I don't think I have quite accomplished it yet)
Do you have an angle that you aim for when completeing a tack. I tend to come off a tack around 40-45 and then work my way up to 30, but some days this isn't enough. I think I tend to stall the boat and am working on my stick skills.
Or put it another way - is there a speed that you aim for (granted this is all relative to wind pressure).
Any suggestions?
Gregg
This weekend I raced in two very different wind conditions - 8 knots to zip, mostly on the light side and the 10-15 knots mainly on the 15+ side. We raced the first day (light air) with the 150 watched the J24's we were with walk away to windward. Then the next day we tried both the 105 & 135 with similar concerns.
I am racing PHRF and am watching J24's point 10+degrees higher than I am. I understand the speed for lift equation (at least conceptually, I don't think I have quite accomplished it yet)
Do you have an angle that you aim for when completeing a tack. I tend to come off a tack around 40-45 and then work my way up to 30, but some days this isn't enough. I think I tend to stall the boat and am working on my stick skills.
Or put it another way - is there a speed that you aim for (granted this is all relative to wind pressure).
Any suggestions?
Gregg
Gregg
t'kela - #390
Portland, Maine
t'kela - #390
Portland, Maine
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Tom Elsen
- Site Admin
- Posts: 419
- Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 5:42 pm
- Location: Minneapolis, MN & Chicago, IL
Gregg - No disrespect intended, but if J24s are outpointing you by 10+ degrees, you've got something way wrong. It could be anything from keel & rudder shape to forestay length to sail shape. Any or all of the above.
I'd recommend that you get someone with real credibility on your boat to look things over. Pay them for their time. It will be $$ well spent if you get a decent analysis.
I want to be encouraging here, but there's just no way that anybody could give you decent advice (about something this dramatic) from afar.
Two possible additional areas of concern are jib halyard tension and wave set. Mis-set JH tension can certainly cause pointing problems. Steering too high in waves can really punish your speed.
I'd recommend that you get someone with real credibility on your boat to look things over. Pay them for their time. It will be $$ well spent if you get a decent analysis.
I want to be encouraging here, but there's just no way that anybody could give you decent advice (about something this dramatic) from afar.
Two possible additional areas of concern are jib halyard tension and wave set. Mis-set JH tension can certainly cause pointing problems. Steering too high in waves can really punish your speed.Best wishes,
Tom
Tom
