I not really happy with my reef set up. Frequently I sail with inexperienced
crew. If a reef is called for I usually have to go forward to pull out the foot
properly. I want to run the reef outhaul aft to the cockpit. My tack hook is already run aft ( cunningham ) Does anyone here run the reef outhaul aft to the cockpit? If not I'd be interested in a better set-up such as single block
with camcleat set at the base of the mast.
Misfit
511
Reef Set Up
Moderators: sderby, Tim Bosma, Tom Elsen
Reef Set Up
Tom Dignam
"Misfit"
#511
"Misfit"
#511
Have you thought about using single line reefing?
http://www.harken.com/pdf/4171.pdf
I included this for the diagram, not the hardware. You can do this yourself for less $$$ than what the Harken set up sells for.
http://www.harken.com/pdf/4171.pdf
I included this for the diagram, not the hardware. You can do this yourself for less $$$ than what the Harken set up sells for.
I've considered single line reefing but single line would limit tack adjustment
and I can envision lots of friction forward when I want to adjust the foot as well. Thought about a Harken 40mm carbo block w/cam at the base of the mast. Requires crew though but that's o.k. I have an opening on the side of the boom with small sheave on each end. Perhaps I just mount a cam on the side of the boom aft of the opening towards the back of the boom.
and I can envision lots of friction forward when I want to adjust the foot as well. Thought about a Harken 40mm carbo block w/cam at the base of the mast. Requires crew though but that's o.k. I have an opening on the side of the boom with small sheave on each end. Perhaps I just mount a cam on the side of the boom aft of the opening towards the back of the boom.
Tom Dignam
"Misfit"
#511
"Misfit"
#511
This is just my opinion of course [ a sailmakers opinion] but if you're reefing because of crew issues but then worried about having tack adjustability..................................... I would have to say that you have some priorities backwards 
.
People have different levels of sailing skill and crew handling skill but I would never even CONSIDER reefing the 7.9 with a full crew until it was blowing at LEAST a steady 25 mph and have raced the boat many, many times over the years with winds gusting higher than that and not reefed. If you are really sailing the boat even close to right you can get things bladed out and very controllable.
If you choose to continue to reef anyway, don't worry about getting the tack tension perfect, you have a halyard anyway. Tack adjustment [cunningham] is the most abused control on the boat and 95% of the sailors out there would find that they were faster and could point higher if they just left it off the boat!!! Just like a compass, it winds up being a crutch to fall back on when the real problem is a simple lack of practice and race course observation, and both only work to slow you down over the long haul if not used correctly because you and the crew are wasting valuable speed/angle/brainpower thinking about them INSTEAD of just going back to sail trim/boat handling 101!!!!!!!!!!! There are NO TACTICS that will help you if you are slow. Conversly, tactics usually seem to be simple and sometimes ridiculously easy when you are fast. 
.People have different levels of sailing skill and crew handling skill but I would never even CONSIDER reefing the 7.9 with a full crew until it was blowing at LEAST a steady 25 mph and have raced the boat many, many times over the years with winds gusting higher than that and not reefed. If you are really sailing the boat even close to right you can get things bladed out and very controllable.
If you choose to continue to reef anyway, don't worry about getting the tack tension perfect, you have a halyard anyway. Tack adjustment [cunningham] is the most abused control on the boat and 95% of the sailors out there would find that they were faster and could point higher if they just left it off the boat!!! Just like a compass, it winds up being a crutch to fall back on when the real problem is a simple lack of practice and race course observation, and both only work to slow you down over the long haul if not used correctly because you and the crew are wasting valuable speed/angle/brainpower thinking about them INSTEAD of just going back to sail trim/boat handling 101!!!!!!!!!!!
There are NO TACTICS that will help you if you are slow. Conversly, tactics usually seem to be simple and sometimes ridiculously easy when you are fast. Thanks for the advice Dave. My last race was sailed in 21-23kts, right on the cusp of when or not to reef. I sail on the Chesapeake Bay. I had decided an hour before the race to run a reef line just in case I had crew bail from the race. On the way out to the course I decided to reef as much to learn more about how the boat performed with a reef as out of necessity. It was an interesting race and we were hurt as much as helped by the reef. The cam cleat at the end of the boom was too small to handle the line I had run for the reef. My crew, was unable to improvise a simple half hitch before I went forward to complete the task. We were late to the start ( embarrassingly so ) and our main competition for this race, a J27, had a very nice 58s lead at the start verified on my Velocitek. It was a downwind start 1.15 NM to the leeward mark. I carried a reef he did not. At the leeward mark he had gained another 56s. The next mark was a two mile beat to weather. Our track showed we sailed as fast as the J27 but closer to the wind. At the top we had regained all but 11s as he crossed ahead on port tack. A foul tack cost us another minute before we recovered and the race was on to save our time. I was loath to ask my moribund crew to shake the reef so we sailed on with it. We lost another 50 or so seconds on the reach to the finish but saved our time to take a first. Granted, this was not one design so my observations were of questionable worth, but the point being I had no flexibility from the cockpit to shake the reef nor to offer any assistance forward to put a reef in. Ergo my question to the forum was less about "how to" but "what do successful
7.9 sailors do" From your post I must infer either you never reef or you use single line reefing because you recommended it. Using the
cunningham hook seemed to work well because it was a positive hook up and would remain so as the reef is shaken and available to reef again without crew having to touch it. How I decide to run the clew reef line aft is something I'm debating. I want to utilize existing turning blocks and jam cleats if I can. Just observations from another sailmaker and one willing to steal a good idea. Cheers
7.9 sailors do" From your post I must infer either you never reef or you use single line reefing because you recommended it. Using the
cunningham hook seemed to work well because it was a positive hook up and would remain so as the reef is shaken and available to reef again without crew having to touch it. How I decide to run the clew reef line aft is something I'm debating. I want to utilize existing turning blocks and jam cleats if I can. Just observations from another sailmaker and one willing to steal a good idea. Cheers
Tom Dignam
"Misfit"
#511
"Misfit"
#511
To each their own. The 7.9 is WAY slower downwind than a properly sailed J27 in the upper wind ranges just because the former tows a wave like a towboat and the latter will easily plane! Going downwind with a reef in is something that I haven't done since around 1986 and strangely, that WAS in a J27!!! 
It was blowing a steady 28-30 or so and gusting up in the 40 area. We had the old analog Signet Knotmeter pegged on the "T" at the end of Signet, off the scale, and somewhere in the 15-16 knot range with a reef and the working jib winged out on the pole 
!!! You SHOULD be able to nail them upwind. IMHO, most of the post J24, J30, J29 Johnstone designs with the narrow beam and waterline and loads of sail area were optimized for light to moderate air, the norm in most of North America. They are relatively tender and not easy to drive hard upwind in the higher stuff unless the jib leads can be moved all the way out to the rail, and I've never seen anyone else do that but me..........
I feel for you on the crew thing. Crew and all that comes with it has taken most off the fun out of racing for me, that's why I have been doing the Race Committee Chairman job at our club for the last 15 months! Having to beg, cajole, or coerce folks to do the simplest sailing 101 tasks like HIKING, let alone hiking HARD, moving in and out and/or fore and aft without constantly asking/telling them and so forth............................ I just don't call that much fun anymore. It's sucks but nobody ever said that life was always fair, OR fun!!!!
It was blowing a steady 28-30 or so and gusting up in the 40 area. We had the old analog Signet Knotmeter pegged on the "T" at the end of Signet, off the scale, and somewhere in the 15-16 knot range with a reef and the working jib winged out on the pole !!! You SHOULD be able to nail them upwind. IMHO, most of the post J24, J30, J29 Johnstone designs with the narrow beam and waterline and loads of sail area were optimized for light to moderate air, the norm in most of North America. They are relatively tender and not easy to drive hard upwind in the higher stuff unless the jib leads can be moved all the way out to the rail, and I've never seen anyone else do that but me..........I feel for you on the crew thing. Crew and all that comes with it has taken most off the fun out of racing for me, that's why I have been doing the Race Committee Chairman job at our club for the last 15 months! Having to beg, cajole, or coerce folks to do the simplest sailing 101 tasks like HIKING, let alone hiking HARD, moving in and out and/or fore and aft without constantly asking/telling them and so forth............................ I just don't call that much fun anymore. It's sucks but nobody ever said that life was always fair, OR fun!!!!
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Fred Chadsey
- Posts: 49
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2003 5:43 pm
- Location: gulf shores, al.
Reef set up
Kaotic (467), when had new mainsail made put in a "flatening reef". Very effective when winds in 20kts +. It takes about 30" out of foot in a triangle @ the leach to the cunnigham about 4"-6". Any reefing beyond that has not been used by us, even in 30+kts. It was suggested that barberhauling to the rail in heavy air is best. Amen !!!. For winds 20kts to 25 kts we barberhaul a 135 genoa, while everybody else are using their blades. We kick butt. We barber haul on ALL reaches, this tightens the leach for more power.
S2 7.9 hull # 467
Way to go Fred!! sheeting to the rail opens the slot so that the main can be kept at full size [or close to it: flattening reef] and the traveler can carried all the way down without the main inverting. I try to refrain from using the term "backwind" because it's a myth and not what's really happening at all. Carrying the headsail and main at a wider angle af attack generates much more forward drive and much LESS sideways drive. Most folks think that they will loose pointing because of the wider jib lead. Hog wash!!! The boat is going so much faster through the water with less side load that VMG usually go UP!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lift increases at the square of the wind speed. For you non math types out there [ME !] that simply means that as the wind speed doubles the load on the sails quadruples!!! 
If you keep that in mind then it's fairly easy to see why having a true barberhauler won't give you that much more benefit than just using snatch blocks out to the rail. To summarize: when things get to the point of needing to open the leads up say 8" - 12", adding just a few more mph or knots of wind means that's ALREADY not enough and that the lead needs to go to the rail.
If you keep that in mind then it's fairly easy to see why having a true barberhauler won't give you that much more benefit than just using snatch blocks out to the rail. To summarize: when things get to the point of needing to open the leads up say 8" - 12", adding just a few more mph or knots of wind means that's ALREADY not enough and that the lead needs to go to the rail.