What Genoa size?

[GCushing]

I am new to 7.9 ownership.

Is there a preferd Genoa size for racing and if so what size?

My boat has a roller furling system, What is a good size for general cruising in widely varying conditions (Galveston Bay, Houston, Tx.)?

Thanks,

George

[sycmcsa]

For cruising with a roller furling most people go with a 130% or 140% genoa. For racing 155% and a 110% with no roller furling.

[Martin Novich]

George,

I race a 7.9 here in Port Arthur, just up the coast from you guys in
Galveston. I have a couple of questions. Do you get a 6 second credit for
your roller furler, can you shorten sail and use the roller furler and still keep
your 6 second credit...and, can you change to your 110 and still keep your
credit? My PHRF committee in its infinite wisdom will not let me keep my 6 second credit if..I shorten sail using my furler...if I use my 110., and they will not let me raise the board going down wind

Just trying to understand what others are doing.

[dave]

Martin, do a search on raising the board. The issue has been hashed to death and the general consensus is that #1, the boat was DESIGNED to be sailed downwind with the board less than all the way down and #2, because of that, the internal ballast makes the boat self righting even with the board all the way up, so most PHRF committees have come to the conclusion that for the 7.9 there is no penalty for sailing that way. Unfortunately, IMHO there are lots of beaurocratic, paper pushing, bean counter types that gravitate towards serving on handicap committees [and as race officials] who seem to ignore common sense and seemingly enjoy raining on others parade's. At GMSC [Little Rock] we use the GYA for our PHRF ratings and follow their guidelines. Check out this paragraph from the Bylaws :

V. PHRF RATING CERTIFICATE



A. To obtain a PHRF certificate a boat must be a mono-hull with a self-bailing cockpit and must be self righting with fixed righting ballast for the duration of the race. Self-righting boats with movable weighted keels, swing keels, dagger boards, or keel/centerboards, where the weight is required to make the boat self-righting, shall not raise the righting ballast at anytime during the race. Further, any boat that uses water as ballast must be fully water ballasted while racing and may not shift ballast from one side to the other while racing.


"where the weight is required to make the boat self righting" is the key phrase. The 7.9 DOES NOT FIT into that catagory.

Dave

[BarryE]

PHRF committee's can be somewhat close minded when it comes to boats, or circumstances that vary beyond their experience.
My PHRF association allows us to designate if we have a recognized one-design, and if we are racing it in its one design configuation. If we check yes, then we get the appropriate rating, but must follow our one design specs; sail limitations, etc., we can raise the board without penalty, as that is allowed within our one design rules.
Its this same concession to one design rules that allows some boats to race PHRF without lifelines, and others to race with longer than "J" size spinnaker poles.
Once you deviate from one design specs, its like letting the genie out of the bottle, you may gain some, but your PHRF committee can take away some.
For what its worth, and to my best knowledge, most PHRF committees will grant a 6 sec credit if you have a roller furler, but usually you are limited to just that particular sail, and most committees won't care how you fly that one sail, in, out, or somewhere in between, so long as you only use that one sail.

[orion27]

If you are going to race PHRF your boat will be rated based on using a 155% genoa. Roller furling sails, while convenient, require a more acute tack angle ergo, a higher clew off the deck for the furling genoa to roll properly around the forestay. There is extra weight associated with the furling sail as well because the need for a sacrificial UV strip along the leech and foot if you are going to keep the sail on the forestay. Serious racers in general would not consider a furling genoa.

[Captain Frank]

Any body every try a 170 genoa ? How did you like it ?

[dave]

I haven't even SEEN anything larger than a 155% in at least 25 years. They are one conditions sails. Of you live in an area that frequently has little to no wind and you still actually CHOOSE to go out in it, and you don't mind buying and keeping one more sail, you may find some use for it. Alas, huge overlapping headsails and J measurements, masthead rigs with little bitty mains and bloopers were all signs of a bigger problem: LOUSY BOATS!!! Starting in the late 70's and especially in the last 15-20 years, designers and builders have been putting out boats that for the most part actually SAIL WELL instead of having a good rating at the expense of any good sailing qualities. That being the case, a well designed 155% fits the bill and is plenty good on most boats for 3 - 18 mph, depending on crew, sailing skill and the stiffness of the boat.

[Captain Frank]

Seems that I remember that our S2 7.9 offered the 170 genoa as an option.

What are your thoughts on comparing the 170 genny to a Code 0 A-symmetrical.?

yeah, I have been out in less than 5 mph wind days and wished for more sail; good thing they make Cold Beer!

[BarryE]

Wow, an old thread come back to life.
My boat came with an old 170, in all honesty, I've never used it.
I tend to believe that 170's were a carry over from the old IOR days where headsails were big, masthead affairs while the mainsails were small. The IOR rules favored that arrangment.
One design for the S2 limits headsail size to 155. PHRF penalizes sails bigger than that.

[dave]

Wow, an old thread come back to life.
My boat came with an old 170, in all honesty, I've never used it.
I tend to believe that 170's were a carry over from the old IOR days where headsails were big, masthead affairs while the mainsails were small. The IOR rules favored that arrangment.
One design for the S2 limits headsail size to 155. PHRF penalizes sails bigger than that.

I think that's what I said. With measurement rules the designers PURPOSELY designed boats that they KNEW wouldn't sail worth a hoot just so that they would rate well. What a concept....................................................... an engineers dream come true, with all due respect to the engineers out there! The best rating in the world is a boat that sails well without doing idiotic things to [hopefully] keep it under control and/or make it go.

[Captain Frank]

Hey Barry, Want to sell that 170 ?

I would like to give it a try !