PHRF Ratings Appeal

[sawalt]

I am concidering appealing my rating of 182 with PHRF-NW. My reason is to allow the pulling of the daggerboard without the 3 sec per mile penalty proscribed. I know that prohabition against pulling the board has been discussed before, but I'm wondering if it's worth my time. I was thinking that since waterballasted boats are allowed and the boat would be sailed as designed it would be a worthwhile attempt. What do you all think?

[Tom Line]

Here is a post over at SA where I did some of the math and got (admittedly) a little heated.

http://www.sailinganarchy.com/forums/in ... ard&st=100

182 is the highest rating I've heard for a 7.9 - I don't know I would go messing with it.

[sawalt]

PHRF-NW added approx 10% to all ratings a few years back in order to "even" out the rating system. It was a 168 before that. There is a J24 in my club that rates 182 also.

[sawalt]

Starting with our Spring Regatta Apr 8th I'm going to start raising the board down wind and take the 3 sec penalty. My question is how close to the wind to you leave it up? Or as you start to reach to do you lower it abit? I've marked the line at 1 foot (36" of line length) increments so If I need to lower it abit I'll know how much.
Oh and I was wrong about the J24 rating. It's actually 186 for a "standard" boat.

[Rudeman]

I am concidering appealing my rating of 182 with PHRF-NW. My reason is to allow the pulling of the daggerboard without the 3 sec per mile penalty proscribed. I know that prohabition against pulling the board has been discussed before, but I'm wondering if it's worth my time. I was thinking that since waterballasted boats are allowed and the boat would be sailed as designed it would be a worthwhile attempt. What do you all think?

Not that there are a ton of 'board racers in the NW, but the board lift ban is not just exclusive to the 7.9 it is a "blanket" ban that applies to all 'board boats.

Given that other boats would also be affected if allowed, PHRF NW would not likely give consent to the 7.9 as other boats would expect the same status.

[sawalt]

I just got an e-mail from my club handicapper. It seems that the Head handicapper of PHRF-NW has ruled that the 7.9 can be raced under present rules with the board up and no penalty. However there is a rules change in the works that may change that, but it may also include a change in the base rating to compensate it.

[Tim Bosma]

Starting with our Spring Regatta Apr 8th I'm going to start raising the board down wind and take the 3 sec penalty. My question is how close to the wind to you leave it up? Or as you start to reach to do you lower it abit? I've marked the line at 1 foot (36" of line length) increments so If I need to lower it abit I'll know how much.
Oh and I was wrong about the J24 rating. It's actually 186 for a "standard" boat.

We never pull the board completely up, always leaving about 1.5' down for tracking purposes. All the way up gives you really squirrely helm and it is hard to keep the boat under the spinnaker.

[ex312]

PHRF-NW handicapping has always been a little suspect. You can put a masthead spinnaker on a 7.9 and the penalty is a mere 3 seconds...a real gift! It is amazing how deep and how fast you are like this. Last I heard they didn't penalize custom rudders either...this may have changed in the last year or so.

As you move from a broad to a beam reach you'll start lowering the board, probably to half way. If it's windy keep it down, same for waves, otherwise you might find yourself "shoveling snow" to keep the boat under the spinnaker. In light air we've had about 1/4 board down on a beam reach and there has been enough lift generated from the board/rudder and tracked fine.

Sawalt, do you have a trailer. There's a few active 7.9's up in BC and there might be the potential to organize a PNW Fleet.

[sawalt]

I do have a trailer. However the brakes are completely gone and need to be replaced from the hub out. I'm thinking about doing this before next year's WIRW. However, If there was a chance to get a race with the others before that, I might be conviced to fix them alot earlier.

[Rudeman]

I just got an e-mail from my club handicapper. It seems that the Head handicapper of PHRF-NW has ruled that the 7.9 can be raced under present rules with the board up and no penalty. However there is a rules change in the works that may change that, but it may also include a change in the base rating to compensate it.

Wow ! That is news to me, but if the HH says it is OK, than good news for you. In BC Sailing we are allowed to race with the board up - twice protested with the same result (positive for the 7.9), and again recently clarified that indeed that board can be raised.

The comment about the MH kite is also correct, my boat had a MH (tall and skinny) with only a -3 sec. penalty. We went back to a frac. hoist, but will be going with an oversize kite that allows for an overlength pole - in other words, shorter but wider to project more area. In total the kite will measure larger and thus far seems to be working very well, despite the penalty.

Custom rudders would get a -3 sec. penalty minimum, however we are not going there. Our program is one crazy modification at a time. Looking forward to getting the boat back in the water next weekend after the latest round of upgrades.

Cheers,

Rudy

[myarb]

Any more news on this topic? I raced my boat (#353) this weekend in a mixed, non-spin PHRF fleet. (for the record: 1,6,1,1,2 finishes ) I just got back in the game after a 10 year layoff and when I raced before, class rules superceded. If class didn't allow you to retract a ceterboard or keel, then you could not do it in PHRF. If class allowed it, then PHRF allowed it and you were rated accordingly. Does anyone have a link or reference for me on this?

Thanks,

Mark

[dixonwj]

All PHRF is local. Know your local rules.

Here in West Florida racers are given a choice. They can race Class Rules and get an "ODR" note on their certificate or not. For 7.9's ODR means it's ok to raise and lower the board, there are limits on new sails, there is no time allowance for inboards, no #2 genoas, etc, etc.

[fleck]

I love/hate these discussions. Hold on a moment while I get my soapbox....

Got it.

Here's what I would do. Ask you handicapper if a Tartan 34C is allowed to raise his board. If he isn't then they are treating you the same as everyone else. I'd be happy to use an ODR rating if that is the case. If he is allowed, then ask why. If it is about righting moment ask what is the criteria (numbers). Is there a test? Don't argue your case until they give you enough information to make the case that the 7.9 should be able to race board up just as a T34C.

If they tell you that they only want to rate one configuration (down only or up or down) then ask if all boats should be rated with fixed props instead of folding. Dacron sails instead of plastic, etc. Rate the faster config and let those who are lazy be slow (sorry).

IMHO, the PHRF boards shouldn't be requiring the 7.9 to keep the board down. If its a 'safety' issue then they should be banning other designs from racing. If it just makes life hard for them, well that's just being lazy. They shouldn't require ODR restrictions if they allow it for other boats (j24/j22).

Hey Dixon. What is the ODR rating for the boat vs the PHRF?

tartan_34_drawing.jpg (17.65 KiB) Viewed 19829 times

[Gregg]

I have just started playing around with the board - we do a fall series here that is pretty casual even though it is scored. So I started raising the board to play around with things and see how it goes. I brought the board up completely last night on a dead downwind run with very very light air and an opposing current. We moved past an Olson 25 (168 to our 174 rating) and he weighs a lot less than I do, - that was neat.

I am still playing with heights and such and would love to hear any thoughts people have - currently I have marked mine in 1' increments as well just for a place to start.

The fleet I am in could care less about those details in this series. In the more competitive weekend series it may be an issue - I have planned on either doing the ODR method - and sailing that way, or going through the whole argument. But at this point it isn't much of an issue because I am still learning the boat and this new technique.

Gregg

[dave]

Something to remember about boards: When sailing downwind in light air you frequently must put the pole way forward [and way low] and reach downwind just to keep the sail full. Pulling the board all the way up lets the boat slip sideways.............................. a good thing IF you can keep the chute full, but, in light air apparent wind is all important. Sliding away from the wind DECREASES the apparent wind in the sails which will cause them to sag, causing you to have to head up to keep them full. There is a happy median as long as you remember this and work to find it. A current that's heading 180 degrees to the wind on a downwind leg will ADD apparent wind. Depending on the speed of the wind and the speed of the current it may be a wash....................................................... or not.