Trimming headsails

[Tom Cassidy 352]

This past Wed we raced JAM in app wind of 18-24kts with good sized chop. We were flying a #2 which was too much sail and didn't have the #3 on board. It was far from our best effort. Biggest problem was sheeting the headsail in those conditions. Our trimmer struggled with trying to cross sheet so as to keep weight on the rail but that wasn't working out well. How do most of your trimmers handle that position in heavy [or any] wind conditions? In mid to light air does anybody stay on the low side to check trim? Thanks for all input and good luck at the CCR.Tom Cassidy Gargle Blaster 352

[dave]

Tom, I wasn't going to reply to this because you already know my viewpoint on the subject. Having said that, there have been 54 views of your post so far with no replies so out of respect [and with all due respect], here goes:

In the wind range that you speak of, having ANYONE on the low side in a boat the size of a 7.9 while going upwind is just crazy. There's no free lunch, you get back what you put in, which means EVERYONE hiking as hard as possible for as long as possible. No team on earth can cross sheet worth a hoot without LOTS of practice and the right rigging. If you're not set up with auto ratchets to lead to the high side winch it's going to be very hard to ever do cleanly and quickly.

[Tom Cassidy 352]

Dave,
Thanks for not making me feel like a leper. Considering all the replies I didn't get, you'd think I was asking for Social Security numbers. I respect your opinions but my new headsail trimmer is very dedicated and really trying to put together a smooth "system" that enables him to monitor and adjust the trim while on the high side. We don't have a trim window yet. But after you mentioned it, I put it on the list of upgrades for next year. I totally agree with keeping crew weight on the high side; it's just that he feels that he can't really see what's going on or change it if the sheet is only brought to the leward winch. I'm constantly learning something new because people like you are willing to share your knowledge and expertise; what am I not seeing here? Tom

[Tom Cassidy 352]

Dave,
I forgot to mention that my trimmer uses the J24 crosssheeting method by using the leward winch as a turning block. I'm aware that if I need a #3 then nobody should go to the low side upwind. But then does it become a case of predeterming the right setting for the sheet and don't try to adjust it going to weather? Thanks, Tom

[dave]

Tom, J 24 sailors who aren't cheap and want things done right use either Lopez Blocks or Ratchamatics on the low side and run the tail straight to the top winch. "You gotta pay to play"!!!! Using the bottom winch as a turning block just adds friction to the system and slows down tacks, because you are relying on the weather side winch for most of the load bearing. When you unload the weather winch to load the lazy sheet on it for a tack, the leeward sheet WILL slip some. A very small bit can good because that loads the rudder more and helps the boat to turn to weather, but in my experience when doing it this way the leeward winch usually slips way to much because there aren't enough wraps to get the job done, and putting more than two wraps on while fast tacking/tailing to the high side frequently results in over rides. When using either alternate method you don't have to screw with the leeward winch at all because at the tack the trimmer just casts off the loaded weather winch, and heads for the new weather rail with the new lee sheet in hand and pulls it as much as possible on the way over to the rail.

One question for your new trimmer: If world class J 24 [and other boats] trimmers don't trim from the low side to monitor jib trim, what makes him or anyone else think that they need to? This isn't the America's Cup where you have 17 guys on the boat, a dedicated headsail trimmer for EACH side, AND most importantly, the crew aren't a very large % of the righting arm! Like I said, you gotta pay to play, and getting that spreader window in your main and some ratchamatic footblocks would at least give you the proper tools. Then its just practice, practice, practice!

[Tom Cassidy 352]

Dave,
We use Lopez blocks and tried trimming straight from them to the high side; problem was we blew one out, it totally deformed and that's why the trimmer started using the leward winch as a turningblock. He'd haul in as much as he could through the L block, take the tail around the block and jump to the high side rail.I think a good part of the answer rests in your original recommendation about a trimming window. As always, thanks for the honest input. Tom

[dave]

Personally, I like the ratchamatics better. The Genoa is bigger on the 7.9 AND the boat weighs over half again as much. That may be why the L blocks blew out on you!