Requast from LMPHRF

[Mark Rode]

Have other Lake Michigan boats received a request for "rig dimensions" from PHRF? Apparently due to "potential differences in the rig dimensions of some S2 7.9 boats". 10 days to respond and a 12 sec penalty for an incomplete set od measurements. Just another reason to sail one design I suppose.

[vandersr]

Yes. Received January 5th and it really pissed me off. Most of our boats are stored mast down. Are we expected to rig and measure in January?

Perhaps a heads up in June would have been more professional...

[Tac Boston]

Professional from LMPHRF? Wow that is a funny

What are they asking for? Email me the sheet they are asking for info from and I will see if I can help you guys out. We have pretty much any info I can imagine they ask for. Oh right it is PHRF so they have probably made some up.
Tac

tac(at)doyleboston.com

[chriscraig99]

We are working on this. We are going to have a response from the class association as a whole and prevent you from having to go and measure in the dead of winter.

Chris Craig
S2 7.9 Rules Comittee

[Mark Rode]

A stock boat is easy to measure. What or who is driving this? Maybe we need to have t-shirts made...Friends don't let friends sail PHRF!

[chriscraig99]

John S. tried to call the LMPHRF contact tonight with no answer. He is going to try again tomorrow. The tentative plan will be for each boat to send the stock measurements back to LMPHRF. (As long as you have not made any modifications outside of class rules) I will post them tomorrow after we try one more time to get a hold of the LMPHRF contact.

[Mark Rode]

I just spoke with Bob Sample, Corresponding Sectretary for LMPHRF. He indicated that several S2 7.9's applied for certificates (new or renewal) that were inconsistent with standard class dimensions. He did not have the specific baots. He indicated one looked to be a mast head (sounds like one of the fixed keel boats). They want to ensure they are rated correctly. He suggested an e-mail to lmphrf@lmphrf.org might get a response from Paul A.
I did express the concern that measurements in January anywhere around Lake Michigan was a difficult task at best. Constructive discussion is the right start.
p.s. No task is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it!

[Tac Boston]

Do you guys over there not race in OD configuration? If so the only girths that are measured in the Class mainsail is the MGU and MGM. Non of the others are measured and the others can/will be different from sail maker to sail maker, boat to boat.

The boat does not allow Asails in OD racing so all the ALU, ALE, AF don't mean squat. Nor does TPL that would be the sprit length.

The trick question in all of this is what to say about keel depth Trying to stop us from sailing in OD configuration there as well?

If you all need the actual #'s that we use to build sails to I can get those. But I can tell you that you can find all that in the class rules.

[Mark Rode]

Alas at times we are forced to either race PHRF or not race at all. Sad but true. Tac, What do you have for the MGT and MGL measurements? As far as the keel depth, PHRF does not allow us to raise the board, so 5" is what we live with. We are supposed to have 6 or 7 boats in Racine this summer so hopefully we can race OD at the club (if we can get 5 out regularly). To travel to other YC regattas we need to have our PHRF certificates. (can't get everyone to travel)

[Tac Boston]

Mark I have no idea what the MGT and MGL as we never measure them because we don't have to. The big issue is that every boats will be different, I bet even our sails are slightly different then each other as we don't have a rule to "hit" at that point. Sorry to be so ambiguous about that but we make class legal sails, not "PHRF Legal" sails

So they really say that you can raise the board? Then your PHRF rating needs to be modified so that the performance loss you get by sailing out of OD configuration is offset.

[Mark Rode]

MGL is girth at 1/4 and GMT is at 7/8 up the sail. I had never heard of them either (or not paid attention). MGL limit is .22E and MGL is .9E. -3 sec if over.
The board issue has been raised in the past. There is a decent thread about it somewhere in the forum here. PHRF does seem to want to consider it even though the boat was designed to be raced board up. I suspect that after this amount of time with "not raising the board", if they were to allow it, they would assess a penalty. The other boats that we routinely beat would also not be happy without a penalty. Tough to know the best course on this one.
The main sail measurements seem to be looking for big roach mains. As for the rest of the request...why not require verified data from boats that are out of class spec, instead of everyone. This type of request from PHRF is what makes me cringe when writting the check each spring. It is not the first time they have made unreasonable requests. But being the only show in town for some races we have the choice to comply or stay home. July would have been a great time to request this data.
Maybe "Dear PHRF Certificate Holder, We have noticed some discrepancies in reported data on S2 7.9's. Please verify actual dimensions while your boat is rigged and be prepared to supply upon renewal in January. Thank you and enjoy your summer." Just a thought.

[John Spierling]

All,

I have been in conversation with Paul Anfield today from LMPHRF both on the phone and by e-mail. Paul is going to provide me with the names/sail numbers of the boats in question, and also send me the dimensions of the boats that seem to be out of one design spec. I hope to have this info tomorrow morning. So lets be patient and sit tight for a day or two until we can figure out what the issues are, and which boats seem to be out of spec.

John Spierling

[chriscraig99]

Please email me for the solution to this issue at chriscraig99@gmail.com. Please include your Boat Name, sail #, and hull #.

Chris Craig

[normbue]

What about the difference between the "I" Spec of 30.5 and the rigged forestay lenght of 31ft 8in, that is used all over in this forum, and rigging set up by Doyle

[chriscraig99]

"i" is not the length of the forestay, It is height above the deck of where the forestay attaches to the mast. Check out the picture: http://sailboatdata.com/rig_diagram.htm