We try to keep the boat flat, 15 degrees or less and steady. That seems to work well against the J30's and we often meet or exceed the factory polars.
What seems to work well for the rest of you? Doug (on Muskegon Lake)
Optimim Heel Angle in 12 kts Flat Water
Moderators: sderby, Tim Bosma, Tom Elsen
Optimim Heel Angle in 12 kts Flat Water
Doug Frye
Re: Optimim Heel Angle in 12 kts Flat Water
You are correct Doug, sail as flat as you can the board is pretty short for the fat little boat we sail so the more you can keep it vertical the faster you will be. (I can call the boat fat as I am too 
Re: Optimim Heel Angle in 12 kts Flat Water
Hmmm, when y'all say "flat", I don't think you mean zero heel.
To my mind that is slow - best is 5 to 10 degrees or so.
But I am surely no expert . .
Is zero heel what you really go for ??
To my mind that is slow - best is 5 to 10 degrees or so.
But I am surely no expert . .
Is zero heel what you really go for ??
Re: Optimim Heel Angle in 12 kts Flat Water
To a sailor 5-10 degrees is flattish...Is that a word?
Doug Frye
Re: Optimim Heel Angle in 12 kts Flat Water
Well, again writing as a non-expert . .
I would say that it is difficult to avoid heeling in 12 kts of wind, excessive heel is likely unless you have some beef on the rail.
I'd also say that 15 deg is excessive, in fact anything over ten is too much.
I'd be interested in hearing what the experts have to say . .
I would say that it is difficult to avoid heeling in 12 kts of wind, excessive heel is likely unless you have some beef on the rail.
I'd also say that 15 deg is excessive, in fact anything over ten is too much.
I'd be interested in hearing what the experts have to say . .
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SailingUphill
- Posts: 206
- Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:52 pm
Re: Optimim Heel Angle in 12 kts Flat Water
I am going to start poking at older threads, cause its fun.
Faster is flatter of course, but to the point in 12 knots fresh air, you probably have all your crew stacked on the rail and are fighting to keep it below 15 degrees heel, with your #1 up, assuming upwind of course. I rarely have full crew, and rarely ever have it so clearly boiled down to just those variables (there is sea state, gusts, lulls, weird shoals, strategy, and crew experience that all come into play).
I will note though, that I've used heel angle as a way (especially in lighter air than stated) to force my pinch, to get up higher than my competition. I have noted that the S2 will outpoint most "classic plastic" J24s, J22s, J27s and such. In lighter air you can load the fat on the leeward rail for 15 degrees of heel, and force gravity to hold the sails to shape to gain another couple degrees of point (especially in the less than 5 knot stuff). It's slow as hell, but when you strongarm it for the last few feet to shoot a mark it can be a hoot, and also a surprise to the slam tackers that are trying to make the same mark. Just remember the speed you lose better not put you behind versus the time it would have taken to tack twice.
Don't look at heel angle look at rudder angle. If you have to move your tiller far off center, you are effectively turning the barn door underwater and slowing yourself down. It is all about VMG right? So if 4.8 knots upwind going the right direction is going to get you there faster than 5.2 knots and 2 tacks if you crack off, you must be smoking dope, I mean you are a faster tacker than I am.
I am here less to inform than I am to learn. I am poking through these threads to get information from those who sail these boats fast.
Faster is flatter of course, but to the point in 12 knots fresh air, you probably have all your crew stacked on the rail and are fighting to keep it below 15 degrees heel, with your #1 up, assuming upwind of course. I rarely have full crew, and rarely ever have it so clearly boiled down to just those variables (there is sea state, gusts, lulls, weird shoals, strategy, and crew experience that all come into play).
I will note though, that I've used heel angle as a way (especially in lighter air than stated) to force my pinch, to get up higher than my competition. I have noted that the S2 will outpoint most "classic plastic" J24s, J22s, J27s and such. In lighter air you can load the fat on the leeward rail for 15 degrees of heel, and force gravity to hold the sails to shape to gain another couple degrees of point (especially in the less than 5 knot stuff). It's slow as hell, but when you strongarm it for the last few feet to shoot a mark it can be a hoot, and also a surprise to the slam tackers that are trying to make the same mark. Just remember the speed you lose better not put you behind versus the time it would have taken to tack twice.
Don't look at heel angle look at rudder angle. If you have to move your tiller far off center, you are effectively turning the barn door underwater and slowing yourself down. It is all about VMG right? So if 4.8 knots upwind going the right direction is going to get you there faster than 5.2 knots and 2 tacks if you crack off, you must be smoking dope, I mean you are a faster tacker than I am.
I am here less to inform than I am to learn. I am poking through these threads to get information from those who sail these boats fast.
Presently hull 399, "Ragtime" Blackwater Yacht Racing, Smith Mountain Lake, VA
Fomerly hull 68,"Rum Line," Paupack Sail Club, Lake Wallenpaupack, PA.
Fomerly hull 68,"Rum Line," Paupack Sail Club, Lake Wallenpaupack, PA.
Re: Optimim Heel Angle in 12 kts Flat Water
that was interesting, thanks . .
excuse me whilst I ruminate over it a bit
excuse me whilst I ruminate over it a bit