Heavy weather reefing

dbarrer · Post by **dbarrer** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 5:29 pm

I have crewed on #232 "Greggarious" for 4 years and last Saturday we experienced conditions on the Ohio river that were to say the least, unusual. We had our final "Bridge" race of the year with sustained winds in excess of 25kts and one GUST of 39kts recorded by a friend with an Olsen 30. Early in the race, with 7 on the rail we were running away with it but as the sustained winds piped up and held in the 30 - 35 range, everyone gained on us. We ran with full main, and the blocks adjusted to reduce the 105. I think we needed to reef the main. Waves were 3' - 4' and we just seemed to loose lift off the board.

These conditions are rare but can anyone comment on reefing main -vs- adjusting the 105 when it blows like this?

We made the bridge, turned downwind and unfortunately blew out the main on the run. We left the 105 up and ran an old 155 wing on wing, hanking on two or three at the bottom and running it up with the spin halyard. Still finished ahead of several boats. Hats off (litterally) to Mickey Gregg - owner and skipper for keeping us on our feet.

Post by **Tom Elsen** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:52 pm

Sounds like it was honking in my home town! And if the river was running against the wind, that can be some tough sailing. I remember doing it in a Sunfish, in January...about...well...a lot of years ago.

How did you guys have the 105% set/ trimmed?
And what about the main? Is it (well I guess 'was it' is the operative phrase now) one of Spike's good kevlar sails? Were you vang sheeting or trying play the traveller? Vang on tight or not?

I think that the 'reef / no reef' decision can depend on some of these.

Cool solution to the blown out main! Nice job.

dbarrer · Post by **dbarrer** » Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:29 pm

Dont remember exactly where the jib cars were - #6 or #5 - up front. I was trimming and on each tack I brought it down to the outside shroud. You asked about the main (vang sheet or traverler). Probably a little of both. I wasnt able to watch Mickey. He was driving and trimming the main.

It just seemed that when the sustained wind held at or above 30, we couldnt punch through the waves and we just were not moving forward like we were earlier in the race. Hope we have conditions like this again so we can test alternatives.

No - the main was not one of Spike's top of the line models. And it went along a seem so it is on its way to be glued.

Post by **Tom Elsen** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:29 pm

Man, it WAS howling. The stats put the sustained winds at 30 and the gusts at 35. Since that observation was at Standiford Field, it was likely blowin' a bit harder down on the river!
I think that the boat goes better in those conditions with the jib sheet actually eased out a bit to open up the slot. If the main is backwinded, you really lose power and the boat just won't go. Not that my own performance in those conditions is stellar, mind you. It isn't.
However, when we've had the boat in the groove in big wind and waves, we've chosen to sail a bit lower than normal. The temptation is to sail higher, since the boat wants to head up anyhow. That works ok in flat water. But with the wind (out of the WSW) pushing against the current, my guess is that the waves were pretty square and you need the boatspeed on at all times to overcome the waves.
Also, have someone other than the driver constantly trimming the main. The groove is pretty fine and you slow down fast once you lose it. And I'd vang sheet for certain, something that's tougher than it looks. (At least for us it is.) A tiny amount too little ease and you round up. A tiny amount too much and you flog the main visciuosly, create huge drag, and slow the boat down fast.
Let's have some others weigh in on this one.

dbarrer - I assume we'll see you guys in Racine next August for the nationals, and maybe in Chicago for the NOODs as well?

Norwalk-ROTC · Post by **Norwalk-ROTC** » Mon Nov 08, 2004 4:22 pm

Okay, my ignorance is hanging out again.
What is "Vang sheeting" and how is it done, please?

We have done some fairly heavy weather stuff in a short time with our S2. Long Island Sound gets that way for us with some frequency. Prevailing wind is SW and the fetch is near 15 miles where we are so 3-4 footers are not uncommon and wind 15 - 20 is almost normal for this time of year. We have found a reef in the main gains us about 2 1/2 knots upwind when running a jib with no reef. It was an interesting combination for this cruising sailor who's own boat is a cutter rig.

Rudeman · Post by **Rudeman** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 4:55 am

Tom,

I only sailed the boat twice in heavy air, however here are a few of our thoughts and observations..

First time out we were hugely underweight so we went full main and blade

1. The blade likes to be eased, no doubt about it
2. You do have to resist pointing up, you loose speed fairly quickly, so small bites are all you could do. To use a Leylandism "put the bow down and let the big dog eat" is an accurate description.

3. We ran the mainsheet loose, just enough tension to keep attached flow.

Once in the "groove" were doing 5.6 - 5.8 very steady the odd 6.0 (it was wavy) - nice speed for the rating and with little bites we climbing over the fleet, and we dry and comfy â€“ all good things in our books.

Next time out we had a six-pack of beef on the rail and went full main and heavy #1 with everything zinged on tight. Even with the weight and horsepower we were doing steady 5.6 and the odd 5.8 - Not to mention a ton slower tacking. So not worthwhile.

We didn't get to vang sheeting in either sail. We did work the backstay more on the second time out. I am not unconvinced that the stock backstay system should not be upgraded to something with more travel and better purchase and could be more effective? - Thoughts ?????

Tom Line · Post by **Tom Line** » Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:43 pm

Regarding the backstay tension, I've changed to a spectra backstay with a cascaded 16:1 purchase system. In really heavy stuff we absolutely crank on it. Some pretty simple math suggests we're putting at least 1000 lbs. on it.

Figuring the amount you're putting on with the pinch type back stay is a bit of a mathmatical pain in the neck - try cranking in on hard and measuring with the loos to get a good idea of what you're putting on.

BarryE · Post by **BarryE** » Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:40 am

We went out last spring on lower Lake Huron. A 30 mile "distance" race that started out heading north with a light south wind, then we turned east, and started a reach toward a bouy near the Canadian shore about 20 miles away. As we progressed, the wind shifted east and built from 10K to over 30.
First we went down to the small jib, then we went down to a reefed main.
We were a little light, one person short, and as the wind and waves built, our progress to windward gradually decreased. Eventually, all we were able to do was reach back and forth across the rumb line, the wind was gusting to 35, and the waves had built to 6-8' range. After about an hour we had only made 1.5 miles toward a target that was still 6 miles away. Heavy wave action helped us avoid knockdowns as everytime we dropped into a trough, the wind eased off the sails. After that we bailed on the race, spun the boat around, and broad reached home at about 7-8 knots. We probably could have gone faster if the seas had let us.
Final analysis: My main has only one reef point. A second reef point might have helped. (I have a older dacron main with two reefs that I use for cruising, and it has come in handy.) But, a double reefed main is not that much faster, and may not have been helpful. Certainly I needed more weight. We were on our ear much of the time. Also, in hindsight, we probably had the small jib leads set wrong. It never did really trim right.
More back stay tension would have helped, but I was still using the old pinch system with a 4-1 purchase. Our biggest problem wasn't control, it was moving to windward. I think we just got to a point where it wasn't going to happen.

BarryE
Aeolus #11

DaveR · Post by **DaveR** » Sun Jan 09, 2005 4:15 pm

we max crank everything down- backstay,vang, mainsheet,jibsheet- and play the traveller in the gusts(sometimes also dump the sheet). keep the boat on the verge of luffing and drive up and down the waves. survival sailing. keep the boat at a somewhat constant angle of heel with crew weight and mostly mainsail trim- playing the traveller constantly if it's gusting . sail with the back of the main. we can crank the backstay down so the ring is about 1-2' above the transom. The 7.9 loves a breeze.

Fred Chadsey · Post by **Fred Chadsey** » Tue May 09, 2006 10:03 am

Just finished Dauphin Island Race winds 30 to 35 kts. had 105 barberhauled @ rail, double reef in main, we were getting knock down with big gusts. The S2 wants to round-up with gusts from apparent wind changes, luffing main had very little impact on reducing round-ups. Has anyone ever tried crosshauling jib sheets and having trimmer easy sheets in guts to prevent rounding-up with big gusts ? When we were balanced we were doing 5.8 to 6.2 in 3+ ft waves.

hwpratt · Post by **hwpratt** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 1:08 am

I crewed on a 7.9 in the 2006 Islands Race (Lake Erie, out of Sandusky). Winds were southerly (offshore) and moderately puffy, at the upper range of the #1 with crew of 5. We had an invaluable short guy with big biceps playing the genoa from the windward rail and had great speed without a lot of knockdowns.
We used the leeward winch as a turning point and a primary self-tailer on the windward rail to play the genoa. Of course the mainsheet was busy, too. We kept quite constant keel angle upwind, despite puffs, and it was fast -- "Garble Blaster" won first in the event.

It's what the J22 guys use all the time, and a time tested technique. It has a lot to recommend it.

S2 7.9 Meter Class Association