What to look for on a used s2 7.9

[Southern Gales]

Hello,
I will be taking a look at an S279 for sale and noticed there are no 1985's listed in the PHRF down here. Not a big deal but wanted to do some additional homework. I understand epoxy resin was used on #358 and older, which is a plus. Are there any concerns with production in 1985? From what I see, there is no difference between years but i wanted to ask the question before surveying it. Here is my list of things to look for:
1) Delaminating Rudder, Centerboard
2) leaky chain plate, soft surrounding deck on starboard (check port as well)
3) Check standing rigging, running rigging
4) Check for cracked CB housing
5)???
Thanks, I look forward to joining this fun group soon!

[SailingUphill]

Check for a fat keel (delam), sound the hull with a "hammer" in places to check for "thud," or worse, "hollow," fiberglass should sound like you are banging on something hard (rock maple, formica, etc)... if you hear a difference you'll know what I mean. Obviously check rigging and sails, but those things are "easy" to figure out if there are problems.

This goes without saying you'd think, but if you have any plans to trailer, it makes sense to factor in the quality/condition of the trailer as well... Rollers over bunks, check tires for dry rot/uneven wear, jack the axle up spin a tire (or 4) listen for bearings in a coffee can sound (bad race/bearings)... Less important, but still lends towards value, Discs over Drum, inertia over electric brakes, and galvanized over painted. Also don't underestimate the value of a good bow wench (or is that winch, I always get that wrong).

Outboard models, well, you pay your price you take your chances, generally speaking the newer the better... 4 stroke MAY be more valuable than 2 stroke (to some people)... I frankly prefer the 2 stroke only because lb for lb they are lighter, and frankly easier to maintain, but then they also seem to have carb troubles more often so whatever you feel is the better deal for you. Um start the motor! or at least make sure it turns over, and pumps water...

If inboard, Yanmar over BMW, but mostly because getting Beemer parts is tough. See last line paragraph above.

[Southern Gales]

Thank you Uphill, that's a big help. I came across one of your earlier posts that also mentioned to look for the following:
" Boat is dry where it needs to be (mast step, chain plates, gudgeons or is that pintails..."
I found a folded pocket knife works as a good hammer to test for delam. I think the only possible show stopper would be delamination around the mast step. Or at least a considerable amount off of the asking price. I'm guessing to replace the mast step and surrounding damp core would take a few thousand dollars. Can anyone verify this guesstimate?
I should also look for bent spars. Any other items?

[Southern Gales]

It has been stored on a lift over saltwater for several years with little use. With the mast up. Should I take the mast down and inspect for ???? before making an offer?
It has a 6 hp 4 stroke. Seems like the standard IB is a 10 HP. What is the max HP for the S2 7.9 without overpowering? ...Just brainstorming here

[Josh]

I've got an '83 and the first thing I had to do was repair a rotten mast step. Check for softness around the whole cabin top. I have a 5hp 4 stroke and it carries me around 5kts around the lake.

[SailingUphill]

Given the age of these boats, I'd argue most aren't "farming out" the repairs to other places to get them fixed, and I can't give you a "cost" estimate. I just know that I personally wouldn't want to do the mast step repair (I could do it, but would always wonder if I got it perfectly level), that's my only reason for avoiding boats that already have this damage. The chainplate/mast step repairs are mostly just labor, but more complicated than if the problem is say at a stanchion or bare spot on deck (winch, cleat, or such).

AS for the inboard being 10hp, most outboards being 5-6hp it's a weight thing.

Those opting to use an outboard have 2 things likely in mind, weight (overall for racing weight) and weight when they have to lift it and remove it (a 6hp 4 stroke will weigh in around 60lbs, more than that and it gets hard to lug around by hand). A 6hp will get these boats moving pretty well (hull speed) in flat water (with the right prop), and even in some chop, problems start to arise when it gets to "steep chop," which is why the 20inch or 25 inch long shafts are recommended. Outboards really aren't suited to steep chop regardless... and is likely the only reason why someone might opt for inboard.

As for inboards, I am not sure there are any readily made smaller than say 9hp, so 9/10hp is kind of the starting small size for a diesel inboard, only reason why they are larger.

Your other question is "should you drop the mast," is kind of your deal. The simple rigging inspections can be done with mast up (turnbuckles, look for snaggies, etc)... but more complicated inspection of spreaders/sheaves/mast crane and such of course have to be done with mast down (or rather are easier to do that way - other option is a bosuns chair).

I'm going to say something perhaps a bit unpopular, but don't expect half of what the seller says to be "true." I am not implying they are lying (although I am sure that happens too)... if the "rigging was just replaced," is stated, then I'd ask what year. If they dig in their memory and come up with a year, perhaps it really did happen then. One of the ones I looked at was "rigging recent replaced from JSI FL," recently was 2006 apparently (as I looked up and saw one of the strands completely pulled out).

Keep in mind these are 30+ year old boats, NOT NEW... while good owners can make a boat "look new" they aren't. They will all have "issues" to some extent or another. Granted a good owner, who is thorough can justify a higher cost, if they've addressed the ravages of time, as the buyer you have to assess whether an owner is that person or not (equipment and recent upgrades in sails should be considered in that pricing)... To keep numbers simple each laminate sail will be about $2200, Dacron about $1500 (these are new prices)... sadly they don't ADD that value to the boat but they certainly make the package more appealing.

There are good books out there on boat surveying if you are dead set on learning more yourself... and if you feel uncomfortable, have the boat surveyed, it'll run you about $300 for a boat this size... I personally would not go that route until you started to get well over $10k.

PM me if you have specific questions.

[Southern Gales]

Very helpful, Thank you. I'm going to start another string that relates to thinking outside the box, It may be a novice question but worth a discussion.

[AJ Oliver]

Well, for me the harder repair was re-coring under the winches & genoa track & stantions (sp?) from underneath,
more so than the mast step or chain plates.
Pros in our area get about $ 3,000 to do the mast step.
I did it myself (with some expert advice & help) for roughly $ 300
See archive for some ideas . .

[Southern Gales]

I tapped on the deck and transom all over the place and got a hollow sound pretty much everywhere except around the mast step. The seller said it was repaired a few years back a long with the port chainplate being replaced. Everything else seemed to be holding up even though there was the hollow "bonk bonk" How critical is a damp core if the mast step has been recored and reset by a pro? I also saw spider cracks all over the place. This boat has been on a lift for several years and is a 1985, therefore was made with the epoxy resin. I still think it is a good deal and may last a few seasons before needing a deck overhaul... am I blind by the beauty?

[SailingUphill]

If there are spider-cracks everywhere, and a hollow sound in most places (really everywhere?)... hard to say.. could be water intruded the whole deck through the cracks (but the deal is if it hasn't it is headed that way).

If water infused the core, and soaked it, it should be somewhat flexible and pushing hard on the deck should show water come up out of the cracks. The deck would flex. If the core rotted completely out, compromising the sandwich, you'd have bubbling up of the gelcoat and an obvious flex in the top layer (I've had several boats now that I've looked at like that).

The deck step having been repaired having a more solid sound could be because of the plate below, and if they didn't put core back but glassed it solid (something I'd consider if I were to redo it).

Hard for US to tell from here honestly...

[Southern Gales]

My ear was calibrated for a hearty "tap tap tap" sound from listening to my boat broker inspect my C&C 36 with a folded pocket knife and verifying with a moisture meter. The only tap tap tap I got was around the new mast step and I agree with Uphill's reasoning why that was. the rest of the boat has the "bonk bonk bonk" sound which kinda freaked me out until I inspected how thin the transom and deck is... comparing to the C&C 36. I moved my 194.5 lb. body around the boat and pushed my weight into the foredeck and saw no flexing or moisture pushing up. The starboard cabin top winch deflected the surrounding deck while raising the board and I was well beyond the 80 ft lbs of torque mentioned to raise the board. I could reinforce the winch with a backing plate or just make sure I have a high load pulley (block) system, which is properly maintained.
Thanks for everyone's feedback.

[AJ Oliver]

Well for me, the work was worth it.
For $ 13K (in today's dollars) I bought a boat with
some significant issues; but I was able to sail it
every season and do the work during the winters.
Now I have a very good boat with few issues.
I could have bought a new boat (J-24), but would
have paid much more.
All boats have issues, even new ones.